zippycappypappy's Topics (69)

I really can't see the appeal with whatever they have

yup! there’s still a lot of dubcon in the next novel, just that ilay isn’t as crazy

and bro only started apologizing once he thought that his rape on the uke was unjustified because now it doesnt support his insane delusions that everyone is slaves to their hormones. like there are 6 billion different ways that he couldve been sorry, but somehow the author concocted the one way where he still manages to feel SORRY FOR HIMSELF right next to the guy he RAPED AND DEGRADED IN AN ALLEYWAY. this author is genuinely huffing lead paint

oh my god i hadnt even read ch.45 im actually going to explode. the way that he still isnt sorry. the way that he LOVES destroying any sense of self esteem in the guy he supposedly loves. the way he forces the uke, whom he raped, to comfort him when he says “oh but i must really be a freak”. fuck right off man you need be sent to a dungeon. sorry im blowing up your replies :‹

I second this

Honestly the relationship gets healthier later on so right now its genuinely just fucked up. Tbh props to Ilay lovers who still try to defend him just because he gets a slight redemption arc but ive been hoping for the story to progress faster so i wouldn't have to see this. Im not trying to hide away the fact that the relationship is like this but i think i would prefer not to see this part of it since it just hurts me inside to see Taeui going through something like this. But most people prefer to get Taeui with Ilay either cause it's the main couple or because it gets healthier later on. There's still some people rooting for Christopher x Taeui even tho its not gonna happen at all but Christopher was probably one of the healthiest options for Taeui but its not possible due to Christopher's situation and Ilay. I presonally do not see this current part as romance and prefer the cuter relationships of consent, i haven't completely read the novel but it's confirmed that the relationship gets a lot healthier later on so I'm mainly staying for that but i somewhat regret starting and discovering this a little too early.

idrc if taeui ended with who tbh bcs everyone that likes taeui r a fcking jerk piece of shi. i feel like the reason why some ppl enjoy this manhwa bcs of how unhinged ilay is, yk most ‘villain’ character ended become kind pure whatever and it just ruined the story. ilay is the perfect example of ‘villain’, he got no sad backstory, he’s a silver spoon and obv no one messes with him. i think the reason why ppl like him also bcs of he got everything he wants idk it just show that how crazy ilay can be? i dont see this as a ‘romance’ more like manipulation relationship. tbh i enjoy seeing a character that pure evil and idc if they ended die or something cuz i just like how evil they’re. to add more, idgaf abt ilay but i also like his character, i don’t want taeui end up with anyone tbh. they all trash, terrorist and more.

so yes i do enjoy this shit

its my opinion btw and sorry for ass english bru

>Honestly the relationship gets healthier later on so right now its genuinely just fucked up. Tbh props to Ilay lovers who still try to defend him just because he gets a slight redemption arc

But that's the the thing, HE HAS ZERO REDEMPTION ARC.

What you're pointing to as a redemption arc is just them being in a relationship.

Mind you, ILAY RAPES TAEUI IN THE NEXT BOOK ASWELL!

Like I genuinely cannot comprehend what is satisfying about seeing Ilay and Taeui together even if they become "cute" because the entire relationship is built off of Ilay getting away with being an utter monster without a single shred of remorse, reflection, or even the slightest of consequences.

And this holds true for figures like Caesar and Zhenya too.

I'm not making a moral statement here. I wouldn't care about this rape arc at all if it meant that it got Ilay to seriously consider the pain he's inflicted on the person he is supposedly going to be in a relationship with.

My issue is that it is INCREDIBLY unsatisfying narratively that Ilay and Taeui even enter a future relationship.

It feels UTTERLY unearned narratively and very unsatisfying for a reader like me.

Like I cannot stand that Ilay gets to be happy after inflicting THIS to the person who's supposed to be his other half without even feeling a SHRED of guilt or remorse or even reflection over it.

Like I get that he is a psychopath but even psycopaths can still reflect lmao.

I mean. I see Passion as how Ilay and Tae get together. DS is the story how they like each other. Suite (and Holy Passion) is the story where you fully get to see how they love each other and the why (sort of).
I like the series because it’s a fast burn in terms of spice (sort of, more medium) but slow emotional burn. No instant love, no instant like.
I will say this is the hardest scene to read in all of the Passion series for me, the first sa with penetration focused on the pain. It’s horrible and unpleasant but it was a physically strong person overpowering another and taking out his anger and jealousy on the other.
This one focuses on how Taeui wants to communicate with Ilay. How he wants to share that he didn’t run away, and more importantly how he was going back to Ilay. It adds an additional layer of despair, hopelessness, and powerlessness.
What I like about passion is that Ilay is not fixed by love. He is still a very morally black character and his morals and character don’t significantly change. The way he treats Taeui changes significantly once this miscommunication gets sorted out. And Taeui does really love how Ilay shows him a different side than he shows to everyone else. And I do like the subtle ways that’s done.
I like that there is no redemption because his actions aren’t redeemable. Although Taeui isn’t always a reliable narrator, he never completely ignores that Ilay isn’t a good person. He doesn’t try to explain it away. And although I find intentional ignorance as reprehensible, it’s a more complicated living situation and relationship than most. often authors try to redeem a character and it’s like nope. Can’t. SA isn’t redeemable. Nearly internationally killing someone isn't redeemable. I won’t say unforgivable, but that’s not the same.
That’s why I like passion. But I also get why this is so unsatisfactory to many.

I have the same question as you, especially considering how a lot of Ilay fans are always insulting the second-top Richard lol.

When Richard WORKS for it to have Chris, despite having the power and connections to use Chris's fragility and weakness against him, because he knew how to crush the person psychologically, but he eventually realized that he didn't want to use them because he gradually admitted that he hated seeing Chris in pain or in miserable state even though this is his long plan for revenge, to see the man being put in humiliation. Richard "blackmailed and raped" Chris too, but when you see how much the fandom hates him, you start to question how much worse he actually is lol but then when you read the story, Richard literally got bitch-slapped, realized that it was wrong to hurt someone he loved, begged for 4 fucking years, and never brushed off his own wrongdoings, never rape Chris anymore after this, become the biggest simp. yet the fandom loves to mock him, and they mostly skip his story and even still stuck in the part 1 despite already having continuation to see his 'change' (well not entirely he's still obsessive)

I always ask iltae fans what makes Ilay better, then as they're both toxic tops but they love to insult Richard more. Their answer is always, "Because Ilay doesn't understand morals unlike Richard."

Wrong. We see that Ilay is intelligent, and he knows what society deems as wrong. Richard isn't exactly "normal" either, considering he has actually hated humans since he was a kid and see humans like a chess play. That's why he masks his real nature, and that's also why he hates Chris for knowing about this "lackness" that he hides behind his good-guy image.

And then there's the other interesting answer: "Because Tae loves Ilay. Because Tae let ilay do this and that."

I do admit that Tae loves Ilay, but is that really a valid reason for the readers to think what Ilay did isn't worse than what Richard did? Just because Tae chose not to lament about it? Just because Tae let everything slide? Just because Tae completely surrendered because he's scared of Ilay, despite loving the inhuman guy?

The fandom is so funny when you see how much they love to mock Richard, even censoring his name as a joke.

They don't do that to Ilay, who raped Tae in UNHRDO (which his hole tore and bled in the first rape) and manipulated and intimidated playing mind games to Tae for MONTHS in UNHRDO. They don't hate him for forcibly penetrating him again in Diasim. They don't hate him for doing something unhinged again in Suite, "just because Tae doesn't care anymore and lets things slide. Just because Tae only get angry inwardly but then he quickly forget about it."

I laugh whenever they see people hating on the rihakri (Richard Chris) couple. You'll literally see a bunch of hate for this couple from them on every social media with them using ilay as their profile picture. I kinda get the gist of the reason though, unlike Tae, Richard's uke (Chris) lists every single one of his tops's sins and demands that he not do those things anymore. That he doesn't want Richard to be crazy.

And this is actually what makes me love this couple even more lol but what they said to me when I mentioned this? "Oh, this is a repetitive BL formula."

I mean yeahhhh, repetitive formula indeed. But I'd rather have my bottom bitch-slap the seme and make the seme THINK TWICE about his decisions than have a doormat mc. and I don't even hate Tae, the fans are just annoying ong and hypocritical ong

That's not quite the question I asked though.

What I'm asking is narratively, what makes it satisfying to you that Taeui even choose to get together with Ilay in the first place?

Like is there ANYTHING Ilay couldve done to Taeui that would've made you go "I do not want them together unless the story takes a different direction and has Ilay grovel"?

Anything at all?

I'm completely uninterested in whether Ilay treats Taeui well beyond this point. Especially since I know Ilay NEVER even reflects on his behavior, let alone feels any remorse.

What I'm asking you is how them being together is narratively satisfying if you have any interest in Taeui as a character beyond him being a lawnchair with no spine who functionally serves as a reward for Ilay rather than as his own character.

Ok so I'm NOT insane!

Thank you lmao

I'm not answering the question, I added two cents in your question because I'm questioning Tae fans too, like they love hating on the other toxic top when Tae literally had the evilest man who raped men and women. They root for serial rapist while flinching at Richard, it's just funny ngl

Ignore this reply I read wrong lol, I just woke up from a nap

Ilay fans will kill you if you said you like Richard and Chris couple

Ilay has Black-bellied top as his official tag (cunning and calculating basically) and not to mention he does that mirror sex scenes and when you listen to the audio books it sounds like brainwashing and then the constant thrown words like Chang-in saying Tae adapts well with his environment, and then pairing it with ilay is sure interesting telling, not to mention tae still got ptsd from the hotel rape sometimes but he said he often repressed his dark trauma memories (mentioned this in suite and diasim), even in holy passion he didn't quite remember anymore what happens when he was kidnapped and tortured (not by ilay) that's his trauma response apparently, forgetting bad things. I don't doubt his love for ilay as he's the one constantly doing the words affirmations.

Apparently, based on my iltae friend I asked, Ilay's karma is how Tae made his usual pleasure (don't quite remember what he said but some things like Tae made him gave up alcohol, women, something something), that the inhuman ilay finally experiencing hell because of his anxiety of losing Tae as he would live with this fear for the rest of his life etc etc... Kinda corny ngl but ig they love that bare minimun redemption

I can't even remember what caught my attention about this story in the first place. Usually I fall for the cover, but honestly speaking, the original cover of this series is not very interesting to look at. All I remember is that I started reading this story and I was hooked. This was back when the story was up to about chapter 50 and I remember I read had to force myself to stop reading because it was a weekday and I get up early for work. Then I discovered it had a novel and I scoured the internet looking for it until found a group that does MTL versions, but 4 years ago that was all I could find.
All this to say that my enjoyment of this series has no rhyme or reason. Something I can't quite name caught my attention.
Ilay is an anomaly amongst the crazies out there because he has no excuse, but he's also socially adept. So that makes him interesting.
He's capable of acting "normal", and in my opinion, even if he said he was disappointed at how ordinary Tae was when they met, I think he was always interested.
If he doesn't like anyone calling him by his name, why did he introduce himself as "Ilay" when Tae answered that call? If Tae hadn't hung up on him when they were kids, was he gonna tell him his actual name?
This is why I can suspend my disbelieve when it comes to them as a couple. Because I believe there was affection there even before lines were crossed, and why Tae was able to let it go. I'm similar to Tae in that regard, I can't stay angry, even if I try, so I can understand when he just goes "what the hell?" and tries to move on. It doesn't mean he wasn't hurt because it shows he was, and he was also angry, only that he doesn't expend energy in staying angry, and as we saw, even if he didn't necessarily hold on to that anger, it was dormant in him and he did strike when the opportunity arose.
I do enjoy series where one of the characters that have never experienced falling in love finally does.
I like both characters, and I like them as a couple. I've read everything I can get my hands on in regards to this series and honestly I think every other couple featured are crap ( the only one that doesn't get too much spotlight is the brother, but I think Tae's BIL is a fucking idiot, so I don't care about that couple).

To end my long ass reply, they're not really a couple here, and they don't really get couple moments until the sequel series. That's where we get to see their thoughts about their relationship and how it actually works.

But this doesn't answer my question again.

What makes it satisfying for you to see Ilay and Teaui end up together in the first place?

Especially since Ilay never has any reflection about anything?

How can you like Taeui as a character and root for this relationship is my question. Or is it that you like that Taeui is a lawnchair?

A better way to frame this would be how do you find it satisfying that Ilay faces no obstacles in his relationship with Taeui at all in that he functionally gets to do whatever he wants to Taeui without consequence and always still get to have him?

Mind you Ilay rapes Taeui in the next book when they are in a relationship too!

It's because this is the reality of staying with a psychopathic madman. He'll see the world with his own lense and they'll both suffer for it. Ilay is very rational, in his head his logic tell him to kill taeui for betraying him, but once he saw his face he couldn't do it and decided to eat and devour him to the bone so he won't runaway from him anymore. But even then he couldn't do it because there will be no taeui left, so he settled with punishing (scaring and raping) him so he learns his lesson. The next morning taeui will explain and ilay could only stare at him speechless in a daze because he made a lapse in his judgement.

There is no romantic advancement from this incident, he felt so heartbroken and wronged that this incident kept being a sore spot for him even 10 years afterwards. When he remembered this day in diasim, when ivan talked about this day in suite, his mood immediately plummeted and he became sorrowful for a while. Out of everything ilay did to him, this one scarred him the most.

Iltae is so interesting for me because it's realistic, a psychopath won't change himself 180° in one night even for the person he loves. Instead i could see ilay fighting himself to stay conscious after getting sedated in lethal dose and still killing 6 people just to keep taeui safe, ilay being attentive whenever taeui said his body is hurting and oil massaging him, ilay deadset on killing jaeui but changing his mind to only injuring him because he doesn't want taeui to hate him, ilay accidentally stabbing taeui and it traumatized him so bad he had nightmares for a year straight and it only stopped after he made a deal with t&r squad that if taeui dies he will die too killed by them because he couldn't bear living in a world without taeui.

And taeui is not the sanest person too, he declared to ilay that he would go wherever ilay goes, whether it's jail, confinement, or as fugitives as he boldly rejected rahman's request in diasim, he was crashing out yelling manhandling ilay in suite because he's scared ilay was distant and might break up with him, he asked to be killed too if ilay dies because he doesn't want to live in a world without ilay, and in suite complete work taeui already had ilay in the palm of his hand that he wouldn't touch taeui if he tells him to stop, and he does everything taeui tells him like it's an order. This is just the story of 1 half-sane person and 1 absolutely insane person. It's never gonna be smooth, but i enjoy the ride and chemistry.

Passion and being realistic aren't a good match, ilay is literally written like overpowered shonen character who apparently "he's the strongest, he's the richest, he's the most handsome" he did say that he would stop when tae told him to stop, well he already said sorry too in Yuri's villa when he forced tae to do blowjob and knew he was in the wrong, but then he would repeat it again and tae just let him do whatever despite him grumbling about hating it but in the end it's because he loves ilay

It's realistic in the sense that staying with a madman will make you go through countless hardship, not that ilay is a realistic human lmao imagine wealth (t&r firearm company), power (riegrow family), visual (hot and handsome), godly physical strength/skill, and horse dick all in one person it's just not realistic

Thank you for clarifying! I haven't completely read the novel so i was basing of what multiple people have told me. I wasn't aware that Ilay was going to rape Taeui in the next book aswell either dince i only read recently and I'm lowkey losing the non existent respect i had for Ilay in the first place. Honestly i don't know what to feel about the story anymore after this info so honestly thank you for telling me about this. I also was not aware that the redemption arc wasn't true since multiple people have told me it was TT

to be fair the redemption arc is only because tae adapts and accepts and never have any protest about it because he probably think it's no use so he only often grumbles inwardly while still simping for Ilay's face and body and loving him and then complaining inwardly about how he loves the madman. so the glazing come from the mc that made the readers also glaze the top.

Ilay does change though, but he's still edgy, his change is just "as long as tae doesn't die, that's all matters" so if you expect huge change, it's mostly tae being lovey dovey towards ilay and ilay accepting that act. people said they love how ilay gave all his wealth to tae, and everytime after making Tae in such worrisome situation, ilay would take care of tae lol. They rarely in home together as ilay would go to work for like a month or even months, didn't even assigned bodyguards for Tae knowing ilay had so many enemies who wanna get revenge, and then right after tae was kidnapped by those enemies, he's finally killing them and torturing them as an example to "don't touch tae" something edgy like that

the thing is yuji made ilay so unrealistically strong that it doesn't even make sense to me if his partner constantly get hurt with that much power and wealth and owning t&r soldiers, he can't even assigned secret bodyguards for tae knowing how ilay basically collected a lot of enemies and he cant even prevent chang-in to use Tae again in suite and go along with it then witnessed tae getting hurt and almost raped by jeongpil. It's like if he's really that powerful like how the author write him, why the small fry still hurt the partner if not just for the plot

It's fictional rape

I think the only unique thing about this story is the plot
If you remove the romance that is
Honesty to me what made me read this at first was the plot about the bombs was like training and all that it hit me like codename Anastasia (the plot at the beginning)
Honestly speaking I really think these type of manhwas will be peak without romance or if they romance is a sub plot because (to me) it feels like these semes wanna assert dominance over the ukes which to them is rape well honestly kinda tired of all these because it’s so damn normalized that talking about it makes people think you are morally superior or something