CoffeeBan

Who the fuck is going to be gushing over a character like Elizabeth, regardless of whether they’re in male form. What the hell are you even talking about?

Overlord, Redo of Healer...

Not the same at all. Ainz and Keyaru are literally villain protagonists. That doesn't prove the point at all. If anything, it proves mine. People who gush over those characters are generally gushing over them as villains, because they're entertaining, ruthless, or fucked up. Keyaru is explicitly characterized as a villain protagonist, and Ainz is likewise openly treated as a villainous protagonist.
I'm talking about a character who is presented as righteous and whose revenge we're supposed to see as justified. If a male character did what Elizabeth did and the story framed him as ‘he was wronged, therefore his revenge against innocent people is righteous,’ I'd have the exact same problem. So if your argument is ‘men can get away with being evil,’ that's irrelevant. I'm saying I don't fuck with the actions themselves. Give me a male character who commits comparable atrocities against innocent people, including children, and is still presented as morally righteous because he was wronged, and THEN you might have a point about a gender double standard.

I already answered this in an other topic.

The thing is, i think people are fooled by the fact she's a cute girl in an otome-like manga and think she'd never commits atrocities, even with many clues given by the story where she's clearly not right.
I don't think it's a gender double-standard (and I honestly don't care), just the fact we're not used to villainess so brutal (and I include myself in that, like everybody I was surprised by chapter 16 and 17 (their equivalent in the Light Novel though).

I think you're addressing a slightly different point than the one I was making. My response was specifically to OP’s claim that if Elizabeth were male, people would be gushing over the same behavior. So when you gave me those examples, I assumed you were supporting their comment which is why I was arguing that those examples don't establish a gender double standard simply because people enjoy them. So your point that people aren't used to brutal villainesses isn't really contradicting what I was saying.

Well I think he's right. At least in the genre.

Bruh, that's exactly the claim I was addressing in my second comment . I already explained that my response was specifically to OP's assertion that people would be gushing over the same behavior if Elizabeth were male. You brought up Ainz and Keyaru as examples, so I explained why I don't think those examples actually establish that. If you agree with OP, then you need to provide actual evidence for that claim rather than just saying “people would be gushing over her if she were male.” Because there isn't really evidence presented here that establishes that. The fact that male villain protagonists like Ainz or Keyaru have fans doesn't demonstrate that a male character in Elizabeth's position would receive the same reaction. If we're going to argue that there's a gender double standard specifically in this genre, there needs to be something more concrete supporting it than the existence of popular male villain protagonists.

i answer days later, I don't remember what was told earlier lol