setseyeliner's Topics (27)

First tell me why you think a manipulator, controller, a LIAR, a guilt trapper like TJ is perfact for Ian. Ian DESERVES a healing life him ending up with scarface will be a tragic ending

You saying Ian deserves Tj just because he is a bad guy is like saying a killer should marry another killer lol. Ian deserves to move on and have a happy ending while TJ needs to pay the consequences for his harmful action ie JAIL TIME

Did u read the story with your ass? All tj brought to ian was suffering. He’s selfish and puts himself over anyone. He was messing around in hotels and doing dumb gangster shit when ian was in debt and serving jail time. He’s a manipulative bastard.

made a statement so trash that everyone gathered and started clowning u

I smell an Ian hater. You're a whole circus.

Ian deserves better because he isn’t the one who wanted to be in the gang life nor makes other wait for him, whereas TJ willingly got in the gang life when he had the choice to be with a good family.

!!! Not enough people realize that Ian never had a choice. Preach!

Tj fans don’t even gaf about ian or see him as his own person with feelings they just self insert because they wanna dickride tj they’re so pathethic

Before i read their replies, one advise DO NOT ARGUE W THOSE THINGS they ARE NOT MEANT TO ARGUE LIKE HUMAN BEINGS lmao

They’re the epitome of self insert, like go girl get yourself nothing…

Exactly. Yet he is the one blamed as if his actions are on par with TJ who had a chance to live good..

y’all don’t really read in general before commenting - everyone here was just defending Ian lol

that's true but he did all that not for the love of the game, he was an idiot who only knew how to be rough after he joined the gang. yes he did all that shit but not cuz he enjoyed hurting ian, he was just too afraid of loosing him that he ended up hurting him along the way. hes messy and bottled hia thoughts like how a true 'manly' man should be. this is a conversation of moral argument vs intentions. ive said it a lot of times but ian isnt a stupid person, he knows that their relationship had changed but he stayed cuz the version of tj he fell in love was the tj he knew before the gang. the author has said it before that this isnt a story about healing, its a story about growth. ian doesnt need saving, hes 35 years old who can make his own decisions

The decision is clearly jo.

True it's a story about growth and there is absolutely no character growth I see in TJ he was full of lies. He was so scared of losing Ian that it took him 20 years to confess. He lied to Ian all this time about the debt, driving traumas etc etc. This is making it more certain that Ian is going to choose Jo

well thats what tj is doing right nowww. hes growth isnt becoming a good person overnight, its him finally saying things that he couldn't after all this year. he was afraid to show hus vulnerable side to anyone cuz for years hes afraid of being perceive as weak so that he could climb on top. yes he lied to ian but its a conversation about moral vs intentions. hes growth just getting started! same with ian, ian's growth is finally start demanding tj to stop being selfish and instead of enduring or running away, he choose to finally speak up, fight for the state of their relationship. cuz at the edn of the day, both tj and ian acknowledged that their relationship has surpassed the relationship of lovers or family. this isnt about finding or choosing a better boyfriend, its about choosing whats right even if its not the best choice. jo's growth in the other hand is him realising that he cant have anything he wants in life which contrast to his upbringing and his world.

this story cannot be read on a surface level, you cant judge them, you just have to understand them

Oh wow lol I wanted to have a genuine debate and receive genuine reasons and POV from someone who believes in the opposite but I guess that's not gonna happen. And because yall jumped the gun, here's why I actually think what I think, because in fact I did read very closely. I am not an Ian hater. I actually like him the most. I am not a hater of any of the three of them. I just don't see Ian and Jo as the endgame based on the whole plotline and each of the character's development arcs.

To the person who said that TJ has no character development, go and reread the manhwa. To the person who said that TJ is also just an abuser and Ian the victim and nothing else, I hope your reading comprehension gets better on a second read. Ian is completely aware of TJ's doings throughout the whole story. He knew the very moment he woke up from the surgery that it was TJ's doing and when TJ tried to confess, he stopped him and it was from Ian's POV where he clearly says that he doesn't wanna hear it. Ian knows everything and constantly overlooks it because it really doesn't matter to him as long as he can be with TJ and he quite literally calls TJ his "wretched fate" (check chapters 36 and 38).

Ian will always end up choosing TJ and it's not just because they are in a co-dependent relationship (which they are) but because that is the only possible resolution that won't assasinate Ian's character. Jo is just a window into the life Ian and TJ could never have because they weren't born into it. As someone said, Jo grew up in a happy family where he had everything he needed and wanted and he is used to having everything he wants. Ian and TJ were born into awful families and circumstances and for Ian to live with Jo, he'd have to discard essentially everything that he is, that he belives in, and all of his experiences of the world and life. In multiple instances Jo refuses to see Ian for what he really is and who he was/is. He embraces the truth that "Ian is kind" and can't move from it because the life on the other side of the law that is default for TJ and Ian is so alien for Jo. Jo can never heal Ian's traumas because he can never understand them like TJ can.

Every time Ian was struggling, it was TJ that was there - from his drug addiction, to him killing people etc. And vice versa.

To people who say that TJ has no development and no feelings for Ian, that couldn't be further from the truth. TJ from the very first chapters refers to Ian as family and as his beloved and he is quite a yearner. Also his character development is the most prominent among the three. At chapter 40 he asks himself "what have I been doing all this for." and then few chapters later he disappears to fix things and then reappers way later. Did we forget how he joined the gang so he could gain power to protect Ian. You must remember that these people grew up in volatile and hostile environments and their image of security and love is entirely different from ours and Jo's. BTW, Ian states in one of the chapters that he is aware of all of this (TJ joining the gang and runining himself so he could keep Ian close and safe) and he even tells TJ at one point you changed a lot, but your smile stayed the same, it really brings me back (the chapter where they are in the hotel room eating those takeout burgers). TJ ordered a whole house built for him and Ian optimized for Ian's hobbies and preferences and he hopes to go live there with him once all is over, and this is among the first chapters.

And Jo isn't all that naive and stupid and dissmisive of the bond that TJ and Ian have. Even he tells Ian that in a few circumstances the most prominent one being chapter 45 where he says to Ian to keep in mind TJ's consideration of him not informing Ian about him leaving because he doesn't want him associated with the gang stuff anymore.

At this point in narrative, with TJ giving up the gang and telling Ian that he just wants to go home, the story is pretty much concluded unless someone jumps out from the bush and kills one of the three characters, which is not likely to my opinion. Jo already doesn't expect Ian to show up. Ian has repeatedly chosen TJ over Jo, and he will do it agian, because for 20 years TJ was all Ian knew, and Ian explicitly states throughout the whole story that, and if you were reading closely, you can see that in no instance did Ian speak in a way that was absolutely dismissive of his and TJ's relationship. He would say out loud to him that he might not want to see him or want him gone, but his internal dialogue is always the opposite. Every time TJ is rushing him or is acting as if they are on the borrowed time, Ian makes sure to calm him and reassure him that it's not their last time together or that they have the whole night/day (chapter 43 "slow down it's not like we have only today" - and almost every chapter they're together as well).

Ian saying that he will kill them all for TJ (chapter 42 and later again i dont remember in which chapter) is the most prominent evidence that Ian will keep choosing TJ over everything (even his own desire to live a peaceful and clean life).

Jo isn't an endgame here. He cannot be from any point of literary analysis. It wouldn't make logical or emotional or psychological sense. Jo is just another obstacle that Ian and TJ need to overcome in order to reach the conclusion for their own character arcs.

Everyone who viewed Jo as a main character got it wrong. Majority of the story is told from Ian's and TJ's persepectives, and if I remember correctly, TJ and Ian get almost the same amount of the "screen time" and their past / flashbacks take as much time as the present plotline. Jo is just "there" - so Ian could see what "normal" life looks like, but that is not "normal" to him, and he states that repeatedly, and he isn't even bothered by it all that much.

I could go WAY more in depth with this, but I think I got my point across. I read this whole manhwa multiple times so far. It's one of the better written ones and no character is flat, they're all complex, you just need to read attentively and not get too stuck on the whole "TJ broke Ian's leg omg omg he's awful" moment, because at the same time Ian kept emotionally manipulating TJ by the whole push and pull dynamic - he could've cut things short between them hundreds of times over those 20 years and yet he didn't. and he never will.

ヾ(❀╹◡╹)ﾉ~

Oh this is just another tjian fan posing bruh

I’ll see u in a couple chapters when ian chooses jo

One more thing I wish to add - because I think it's important and telling a lot. The type of sex Ian has with Jo, vs with TJ. It never sat right with me the way Jo did it with Ian. He always came a bit too strong on him for someone who wasn't even that close to him given that they have just met. Him insisting on cumming on Ian's face is a type of power play and when he finally and really did it in chapter 52 (when they were cumming) it was as if he was forcefully marking him as his - TJ never did that when being intimate with Ian. Also it's normal and forgivable for them to have rougher sex when they've been going at it for 20 years.

In chapter 52 Jo also tells Ian that he'll always be there for him so Ian should just call him and never do this with someone else, but Ian doesn't reply to this. he doesn't comment at all, doesn't even look at Jo. Ian also in chapter 51 told Jo "can I kiss you, I want to check something" but he never says what and Jo wonders this at the end of chapter 52. He probably wanted to check if he feels the same about Jo as he feels about TJ. Ian also has a flashback of TJ while they are going at it too.

You can read that interaction between Ian and Jo however you wish - but what follows, the throwback, quite literally once again shows that TJ is the only one for Ian. Ian himself says how everyone turned their back on him except for the "one person"

It is in the same chapter that we see that Ian was aware of TJ's feelings BEFORE TJ and him even got together. In TJ's backstory you can see that Ian is literally his first and childhood crush and it is Ian's addiction that pushed him into gang stuff (just checked it's chapters 55 and 56 go and see for yourselves)

see you too! the only way he'd be choosing Jo is if TJ dies somehow or if TJ leaves on his own but that would be a terrible and not a happy ending so whatever

if that's all you've got from this whole reply and the whole story, then congrats, you did well! <3

That would actually be the best ending he would finally get out of their lives and ian wouldn’t have to fucking suffer bc of that fucker anymore lmao

Bro said cumming on face is a power play im crine it’s not that deep he just wanna have a good time bruh yall tj fans will do ANYTHING to make joseph look bad. It’s actually insane Holy shit. I stopped reading after the first paragraph bc wtf

I js realized ur the op nvm ur retarded asf boi I’ll u see u never u not even worth my time

lol when did I try to make jo look bad omg I am just stating what I think, and I don't have much against him, he's just a side character lol. it says a lot about you that you can't provide me with an intellectual response that does not include insults and slurs. I genuinely wanted someone to give opposing opinion in a normal way just like how I did, but now I see that's not happening why are yall so hard pressed og (btw lol can't belive you blocked me)

I'll save this comment and come back after Ian chooses Jo. The more chapters it's uploaded the more convincing it is becoming that Jo is the endgame sorry to burst ur bubble. We don't want a TRAGIC ENDING with ur fav scarface

R you truly a ywdefender like ur name says or a tj defender??

What I got from this bigass thread is that everyone is VERY creative… Just throwing ‘reading comprehension’ and ‘intelligence’ around like it validates mental gymnastics as real arguments & deep intellectual analysis New buzzword epidemic in the TJ fandom; I need this series to END! Mid last season some of them were fun/nice to debate with: going over chapters and seeing common ground where there was some, now its just exhausting beating the same dead horse over and over again under the premise of ‘intellectually founded arguments’ & ‘DEEPER MEANING’ excusing certain actions, that we, the rest, are all too dumb too see or accept LOL

I am actually starting to feel bad for the author. They deserve better readership base.

I love that you feel called out by the words "reading comprehenshion" and "intellectual debate" it says a lot without saying much. The story is so beautifully and masterfully written in a way that you see the author must have planned the whole thing out before starting to draw the first chapter. It's sad to see how yall mischaracterize characters and misunderstand the story that is said so clearly just because yall can't handle a little bit of subtext. There is definitely so much space in this work to give it "deep intellectual analysis" because the panels in first chapters literally mirror some of the panels in later chapters, no character is black and white but in shades of gray and they can all be analyzed on various levels. I barely scrapped the surface in my reply above. God forbid someone tries to objectively look at the work and not through the pink sunglasses of what is "normal" "safe" and "green flag". And I am not disregarding bad things TJ did (injury, debt, everything to keep him by his side) I'm just saying that the point of this story isn't "healing" and "settling" but "growing" and "growth" isn't always what you think it is based on your subjective experiences of reality, but what the "growth" is for that specific character. For TJ growth can just be becoming aware of their true feelings and intentions. As stupid and simple as it might sound.

I hope you do realize that you're trying to defend a 35yo gangster from choosing a 26 photographer whom he knew for less than 6 months over someone whom he knew for 20 years. Every sane mind knows on at least a subconscious level that that's not how human psyche works and that you don't just turn a new leaf overnight. So no, this is not at all "just exhausting beating the same dead horse over and over again" because the author had to give both Ian / TJ backstory, Ian / TJ current relationship and Ian / Jo current timeline room to breathe and get the point across. You're literally reading a story with eyes half covered and you're not saying one word to change my mind. And I came here open and literally saying "Everyone rooting for Jo and Ian, please tell me why? Where do you see that?" practically begging you to pull out receipts. Did I ask too much? Lol. I don't think so.

I don't even see what point you're trying to get across now since you are saying nothing of value, you're just throwing insults and ragebaits and it's downright sad to look at and disrespectful to the author of Wet Sand.

ATP idec who Ian chooses, I'm just disappointed in these mid ass comments yall be making. I just hope not to see you defending Ceasar or Zhenya or some real black flags. ╥﹏╥

Yes this story is indeed beautifully done just that the toxic scarface stans ruined the reputation of this work. The way they started inspecting Jo stans personal background and attacked them with racism cool right? It's the tj stans who glorify, turn a blind eye on his traumatic actions towards Ian that's where the misunderstanding, mischaracterize character is coming. All this time he lied to Ian so is that growth development? That's new to me lol. Also just because he knew Ian for 20 years doesn't mean he should be stuck with him forever if you think that way , I think ur parents will be with their ex that dated for more than years ur parents dated lol. You asking for why we are rooting and you don't get it means you need to read again. Also Ceaser and Zhenya are black flags but not a mf liar like this scarface. They had character development but wat about ur fav? He lied all this time till chapter 90+. I SEE A TJ FANS RIGHT HERE WHO CAN'T UNDERSTAND THAT. So I'll just not entertain you anymore

No, this is not about feeling called out. I am stating that we used to have actual good debates before everyone started seething of superiority complexes and tunring a blind eye to what everyone else is saying by claiming everything is ‘deeper than that’. No one claimed otherwise, it is just being thrown around way too much for points that are not as factual as some of you might think they are. This is a recent event in these ‘endgame debates’ and no one sees common ground even on things that are not up for interpretation, but actually spoonfed to us by the author as a show of ’superior comprehension'. No one claimed there’s an absolute good or absolute bad, there’s many shades of grey which some are lighter and some darker than the other, which is undeniable. Making this comparison while also categorizing Ian and TJ in the same category almost is also kind of ironic. Excluding the possibility of something different just so these similar shades of grey stick together until the end is pretty short sighted. That is what everyone is saying. People have also come to a point of annoyance with discussions like this since they are being had every few chapters, many are regulars in this comment section and have had these essay debates long ago, that is why it seems like beating a dead horse, just as context. We used to list chapters, dialogues and else as points of reference but now it has come to the point of everything being a shitshow with an extreme case of unabandonable tunnel-view

i am a fan of this story and how its structured around things that is more than just love or romance. if im a tj dtan alone i would be dragging jo right??? but i didn't cuz i love all three of them. your lack media literacy and understanding of complex story is not my fault. wetsand is not meant to be read on a surface level, you need to make an effort to understand it better so if you think ita bad writing then youre reading it wrong. did you read the story with your brain in your butt??