I know this is a small and personal gripe, but I im tired of the excessive alcoholism in manwhas and roll my eyes everytime. I understand peer pressure and the Korean culture around alcohol, but does NO ONE have a spine?
Idk I just think its weird that the characters know better and know that bad shit will happen if they get blackout drunk but still always drink anyways. Having both parents be alcoholics sways my views tho ig...
no i get u i hate shit like this too
Its not just Korea, Japan has the same issue. Its why they also have non alcoholic beer as not everyonelikes to drink. They can fire you for not being a team player, bully you at work, or some other bs. Also if you don't stay at a company for at least 5 yrs you are seen as a bad employee.
idfk if this applies similarly but in Mexican culture u will get ur ass grilled if u don’t drink,, it doesn’t matter if u have a backbone. also they are all men living in harsh conditions so I imagine it’s sm worse. this type of alcoholism is unfortunately brushed off as normal
I feel for Woojin so much in this chapter rn, both funny and sad. When I first came out to my family as gay, everything was fine. Uneventful, even. Then, later on, they said it was an open secret and literally everyone knew, they were just waiting for me to catch up. Then I came out as trans, and that was a little more... eventful. Then, later, my mom said that it all made total sense from when I was 3 years old lol. Parents couldnt be more supportive, thank fuck. My mom and Woojin's are so similar its funny.
But it can't be all sunshine and rainbows bc my maternal grandmother told me to go kill myself if I can't be "converted" and my older sister is completely apathetic to trans rights.
I hope your doing well. Not everyone seem to understand that liking other things and identifying diffenrtly is not inherently wrong (otherwise there wouldn't even be a discussion around that). But I'm hopeful that at least not everyone from your family is like that :')
Know that you're not alone and that for every non-ally there is always an ally there. Thats when you activate selective hearing and just push down your grandmothers opinions down the drain. No need to drag yourself down bc that someone wants you to feel that way, im sure your parents would want exactly the opposite (at least from what you wrote)! So selective hearing! xd
Genuinely think that the author wanted to originally write the story with a transfem MC but realized that the stigma would fuck it over from being taken in by the big names and instead just made it a yaoi. Like I can't tell me the MC doesn't look transfem (or just the most fem twink you've ever seen)
This all comes from a trans woman btw...
don't assume unless stated by the author themselves
Respectfully, ok and? Im not bashing on the author if or if not my theory is the case...
i get this take but if that was the case the story would be completely different, since the femininity was technically forced on psyche since birth and not his own choice
Honestly I relate sooo much to the author in wanting to write(in their case draw) sci-fi alien pay gorn but then getting in over my head with the scale of it all. God(im atheist) willing when I have the money and time, my dream is to publish
I know a character saying something transphobic doesnt immediately or necessarily implicate the author as sharing those views, but that doesn't mean I can't be fucking peeved. "So you'll do it with someone whose not a real woman but not quite a man" FUCK OFF OMG. I READ HORNY YAOI TO ESCAPE FROM THE WORLD, NOT TO READ GAY MEN CONTINUE TO BE HYPOCRITICAL TRANSPHOBES. ONCE A FLAVOR OF F*G, ALWAYS A F*G TO BE GENOCIDED
As a trans man, I agree. It left such a bad taste in my mouth. :")
I think this is religious discourse speaking here specifically as Seong Su has been heavily influenced on the cult propaganda (refere to the nun speaking panels and he also gone thru sexual revertion process most prob, he's also severely insecure so he might be speaking from abuse and internalized homophobia) but yeah I'll take this whole part with a grain of salt, it definitely leaves a bad after taste...
Seong su is very ignorant of a lot of things
Unfortunately he is, he didnt receive proper education as he was also coopted by the church in his teenage years and lived secluded with the religious group imagine what shit he was brainwashed into, and even though he's a parent, he is still a child himself, he got his kids when still a teenager aswell, it's all very sad
I’m sorry, but I don’t agree. I understand that it can be a delicate topic for some people, but as you said, that doesn’t mean the author necessarily shares the same views.
This feels more like a matter of storytelling rather than principles (which you mentioned, and I agree with). The setting is literally a religious cult in the 90s, so it’s only natural that a character raised in such a rural and closed-off environment would develop certain beliefs.
Also, from a storytelling perspective, characters need to have flaws or opinions that aren’t always agreeable. That’s what makes them feel real and allows for growth. If a character starts off already aligned with everything we consider acceptable, there’s not much room for development or depth.
Totally get it, but heads up, this author will probably continue to explore this topic. Characters working through their identities and struggling with ideology are a BIG part this author's works. And obviously homophobia and transphobia are BUILT into modern Christianity, which is going to be a big theme of this work. For the Americans, imagine Seong Su is from rural Alabama, and this is his first time actually talking to someone knowing they're gay and that was his first time seeing a transwoman. He's going to say ignorant things.
The author is really great imo and does great work creating complicated characters and deconstructing ideas like internalized homophobia; their characters' own thoughts do not represent the authors own. But these characters will be realistically complicated and messy. If this is a difficult topic, I really suggest staying away from this authors works. Ouroboros especially is a phenomenal story but it is a challenging story.
The 90s and early 00s were a time when people practiced tolerance which for while got confused with acceptance. It involves permitting actions or beliefs one disagrees with, without necessarily condoning them. It in no way, shape or form prevented ignorance or free speech. It is honestly best to stay away from anyone practicing “tolerance” especially when it comes to human rights. The action of one allowing you to be you, in itself is disrespectful and abhorrent.
As a reply, I understand how the inclusion of Seong Su saying transphobic shit is a plot device for storytelling, explaining Seong Su's character and world view, and the cultural times of the setting. I has more so complaining about the type of person that is being represented, not the story itself. Like I deal with that type of person irl every single day. I was just complaining to complain *shrug*.
You can always complain here. It’s more or less a safe space
Definitely! It's good that we can complain here, that's what the comments sectiom is for, and your comment also triggered a good discussion so there
Yes, of course. I’m sorry if I came off as too defensive of the story. Like I said, I totally understand your point, and I’m really sorry that you have to deal with that kind of thing in real life.
I think I was just trying to offer a more detached perspective (maybe a bit too much) and focus on the reasoning behind it from a storytelling point of view.
Again, I’m sorry if it came across the wrong way, and please don't be scared to complain cuz i love complaining too ahaha <3.
Just a heads up 90s and 2000s weren't the same everywhere. Especially in South Korea, in the 80s it was especially bad for queer folk. 80s were a turbulent time for South Korea (politically) and because of the military rule
In that I mean, there was no "tolerance" of something that doesn't affect me. Maybe on some personal level, but a lot of queer people at that time felt their lives were in danger (which they probably were) if it were found out that they were queer.
I was talking about my family and friends not the government of Korea in the 90s or 00s..
Honestly speaking, you did kinda come off that way and I was just like "damn... shit ok wow", but that shit happens. Text is WAYYY different than face-to-face conversation. But your reply really just makes me happy that even with the extremely diverse groups of people on this site, its still a safe and accepting space for people like me. <3
Ok now excuse me while I go cry in the corner about how there's hope in humanity over a random yaoi site comment section XD.
Wow this actually makes me think that the author knows a bit about the gay experience. Its nice to see one's that show part of the reality of the queer experience instead of "omg what if the two hot dudes kissed and homophobia didn't exist".
Don't get me wrong, not every story has to be realistic and sad because of it, but I like seeing it when it does :)