Sachi

I have sent multiple messages to the mods where I've been told they'll respond and gotten no response so at this point I say this site has just abandoned us.

"I want to focus on school instead of touring the country with you"

HOW IS THAT EMOTIONAL ABUSEEEE?????? I CAN'T TAKE Y'ALL's SHIT ANYMOREEEEEEEE....

THEY HAVE AN ENTIRE CHILDDDDDD

It's not about what he does, but the way he does it. He acts disgusted with the seme all the time.
I feel that if not for the bond they share they wouldn't even be together.

yeah exactly, he always acts like it's a pain in the ass for him to do anything for his husband??

No if it was just that of course it wouldn't be emotional abuse, and maybe that word is too strong, but seriously when you look at their whole history, it's a recurring thing for him to just not really care about Dojin and say hurtful things to him. And in that case I wouldn't have felt that way if it was only because of school but as readers we KNOW that it's also because he didn't listen to Dojin when he was talking about it to him and asking him to come with him, which seems to be a recurring thing since he even thought that he really should stop doing that. I'm sorry but Dojin is not really portrayed as someone he seems to love here??
And also about your other comment, having a child is -sadly- not proof a love, especially to this couple considering how everything happened...

Dojin raped and baby trapped him, things worked out but...he has his flaws too. Hyesung isn't as affectionate due to his upbringing but he shows it in other ways. For example, getting out of his comfort zone and physical affection (a valid form of love.) He's an airhead, as someone with ADHD, not recalling important convos is normal. They have a child, its natural to have your head in the clouds sometimes

I never said its a sign of love, I'm saying him mentioning school and ESPECIALLY Byul is enough reasoning to decline

He said a flat out no, there's still nothing abusive about that, wasn't puking or gauging at the thought

Traveling across the world is a huge ask for a mother and student

You really don't know anything about marriage life. When there's a kid in the frame and you're still studying, those kind of feelings is the least priority. This is how reality couple is. Hyesung is omega, he's only good in math. But for the rest, he has to study a lot.

You don’t know anything about marriage life !

He is clearly not respecting him at all, it's even proven in the chapter, with him blatantly ignoring Dojin when he's talking. His attitude is deliberate and is not a "special condition" since he can act normally towards other people.
He's clearly treating Dojin like shit, let's not pretend. He only goes to him when he needs him, he never cares about him or about his feeling. I'm not even blaming him or anything, since you already explained that Dojin has done all that to him, and he still decided to stay with Dojin, it might not be because of love. Because I don't feel any chemistry between. Now, it's always Dojin showing his care and affection towards him, and the uke (forgot his name) acting all snobbish and cold towards him. (aside from the sex scenes, but it's clearly just to satisfy his needs)
Also, abuse doesn't need to be blatant to be acknowledged, if someone behaves towards you like how the uke behaves towards Dojin, how would you feel?

I'm saying all this because this was tagged as "romance" and there are the pictures of the two leads or the cover, but in fact I don't feel no romance between the two leads.
Again, I'm not blaming either of them.
And... if that is marriage life for you, then that'd be too sad.

I'm saying, you're bullshitting if you say you haven't misheard important information in your life. He wasn't "blatantly ignoring" him.

He's really not...if someone "treated me like that," I wouldn't give a fuck because I don't demand words of affirmation and constant praise

Also, you're using a lot of declarative statements when a lot of this boils down to YOU subjectively misunderstanding their relationship. Fargo has confirmed time and time again that they do love each other

That's a YOU problem, my dear. There's nothing sad or depressing about it.

Man is a social animal, it's not me who said this.
I'll add that different people have different sensibilities. So when I say I don't feel that the uke likes the seme, I'm expressing my opinion. Your opinion is yours, I respect it, we can debate with arguments, but you act as if you hold the absolute truth. Why? Because the author said so? She/he might say whatever she wants, if it doesn't translate in her writing that won't change anything.

You've been using declarative statements like, "He is clearly not...", "it's even proven", etc. Abuse is a heavy accusation and using it loosely like this is very dangerous.

There's a difference between perceiving things incorrectly (yes, perception can be incorrect) and declaring things as the truth. You've gone on a tirade stating that its abusive and how this would be terrible in real life, which goes beyond a cozy little opinion

In my opinion he is abusing him... ^^

Abusing him emotionally. Because in real life this type of behavious is utterly toxic.

Oh pls. That's common in marriage life w/ being a student and a mom at the same time. You know nothing at all.

Ok I must specify that doing it intentionally is toxic, and the reason why I think the uke is doing it intentionally is that for me it doesn't seem like he cares for the seme. And he treats him the worst compared to all the people he's interacted with.
Even if I don't have children, I have my parents and other acquaintances for example. Treating people with respect no matter the hardships you are going through is never too much to ask for. I'm not talking about you or your life I know nothing about.

Hello everybody, just a quick message to say that I'll be muting this thread and I think we should all move on, we obviously perceive this manga and the characters very differently and I don't think any of us will be able to convince the others to see them in the same light, and from I read, it's not really a discussion anymore but more attacks on our personal life/perception of things.
I think it's good to be able to exchange about the way we see the manga, it's good to be able to gush with other people about the characters when we love them, and it's also good to be able to rant about things we don't like. But when nothing comes out of it, it only makes us frustrated, so... Yeah, all this monologue to say that I think we should all move on from this comment (づ￣ ³￣)づ

Okay, again, not a silly little opinion. You're belittling actual domestic violence survivors. You can't keep saying "I feel" without any examples or evidence.

Ok so definition of the verb to abuse: treat with cruelty or violence, especially regularly or repeatedly.
Définition of the verb cruelty: behaviour which causes physical or mental harm to another, especially a spouse, whether intentionally or not.
I said it was an opinion because this is a fiction, not a real life case.
Whether the uke is doing it intentionally or not. Treating the seme with so little respect regularly, in real life, can cause permanent damage on one's personnality where the person would loose their self esteem and think they're inferior, which will make him/her more submissive towards her partner, sometimes even worshipping him.
This thing is commonly known in psychology. If you want to read more about it:

What is a Toxic Relationship?
A toxic relationship is characterized by behaviors from one partner that are "emotionally" and, at times, physically damaging to the other. It involves continuous undermining and manipulation, often resulting in an unbalanced power dynamic. The toxic partner may or may not be aware of the harm they inflict, perpetuating a cycle of toxicity.

The power dynamic in their couple is clear. Dojin appears with a weak presence always taking on himself.
Emotional abuse can vary from verbal abuse to very subtle non validation of someone's opinions, and constant trampling on their goodwill.
For a psychlogist, when a person comes to you they won't be screaming at you "I am emotionally abusee! Or I have low self esteem!" But you can deduce that from very subtle movements, epressions and even a person's posture.

If you can't see it, I do. It's okay if not because this is fiction after all.

https://primebehavioralhealth.com/how-toxic-relationships-affect-your-mental-health/#:~:text=Toxic%20relationships%20can%20severely%20affect,navigate%20the%20relationship%20with%20caution.

Okay. But none of that applies to their relationship. For anything, Dojin has abusive tendencies including rape, possessiveness, and overall being overbearing.

Obviously I know what abuse is, as someone who is a survivor and has taken several psychology courses. The fact that you can't give examples of Hyesung being abusive, proves my point.

You even need me to point that out for you? I'm not re-reading this again. What I read in the previous chapter is enough evidence for me.
How the uke doesn't bother even listening to Dojin because he doesn't care about what he says. And his haughty and self-important behaviour.
He doesn't need to shout, doesn't need to make that expression when facing him.

Well, he doesn't even bother looking at his face, or showing him any kind of goodwill, while the other is literally begging him. I'm not saying to accept to go on a tour with him but at least to appologise because, yes, he was in the wrong. He accepted to go when he wasn't even listening while raising the other's expectations to trample him mercilessly in the end.
Instead, he acts all self-entitled, talking about his studies and their son, implictly blaming Dojin for taking them into account. So in the end, he appears to be the responsible person acting rightfully. This is basic manipulation even if not done intentionally.

If you have suffered yourself of abuse, it doesn't invalidate other people's suffering. There are different types of abuse with different repercussions on people. And I've met not a few in this situation.

I might have come off as a bit insensitive at the end. I'm really sorry that you had to go through that.

First and foremost, Dojin has abusive tendencies including rape, possessiveness, and manipulation. To say Hyesung is the abusive one, is quite odd.

He never stated he didn't care what he said. He said he needs to pay more attention, I explained in another thread,

"Everyone gets lost in their heads sometimes. Glazing over important details when distracted doesn't mean someone doesn't care, just that they were distracted

This phenomenon is referred to by various names, such as snap judgment, automatic affirmation, or subconscious conditioning. It is prevalent in parents, stressed individuals, and those with ADHD. Sometimes, when someone asks a question, it doesn't fully register in our minds, and our automatic response might be a quick "what?" or "huh?" to seek clarification.

Moreover, there's a psychological tendency known as the 'liking bias,' where we are more likely to comply with requests from people we have positive feelings for. In such cases, even when our brain is on autopilot, we may find ourselves instinctively responding with a
'yes' to those we hold affection for

If he was ignoring him, he would've said NOTHING. Ignoring someone is an intentional act. Automatic affirmation revolves around not being in the moment, As previously discussed, automatic affirmation can occur in situations where someone agrees without fully processing the question. It is not uncommon for people to respond with a quick 'yes' without thinking, especially when caught off guard or dealing with distractions. The statement about paying more is an afterthought or a self-reflection following his initial automatic affirmation. Because, yes, automatic affirmation and snap judgments are resolved when you pay more attention to the contents of someone's words

It would be a different story if he said, 'I should stop ignoring him' or 'I never planned on actually going.' But, no."


Okay, as for the tour, mentioning the studies and Byul isn't self entitlement, he's giving his reasoning. As mentioned, Hyesung did video call with him

I'm sorry to say that I'm ignorant on such condition so I'm kindly asking you to provide me with you sources so that I can learn more about it. It seems quite legit but I doubt that the uke is suffering from that. This is so far fetched and it felt like you want to forcefully apply it on him... since I see many inconsistencies, such as the fact he's only acting this way towards the seme. Moreover his attitute while picking his ear is commonly seen in manga and anime and is mostly used to express that the character "doesn't care" or "doesn't give a fuck". It's not me who says it, I went to several forums where people were asking what those gestures mean. And I mean it's quite self evident. So yeah, I find it hard to believe. Since when it would happen to me, when I snap out, I would always try to ask the person what they were saying and appologise to them since it was my negligence. It's basic couretesy when you respect the person.
The uke was implying that it happened many times which means that he was aware of what he was doing... so yeah. I find this reasoning kind of far fetched to apply it on the uke.

And don't start me on Dojin because the writing of his character is just the stereotypical seme character with the rape and manipulation at the start but ofc he likes the uke and becomes his slave at the end shedding all human pride. His development doesn't make any sence aside from a deliberately fetishised trope amongst yaoi female authors.

I always wanted to ask there authors that if they really condemned rape, why would the seme always end up with the uke... or even include that trope. I've read many ABO without the rape tag and it's not indispensable. The implecation of this, I trust that you can figure it out yourself. ^^

Just like how u want to force the narative hyesung being abusive toward dojin with the evidence is being yourself as source meanwhile ur debate partner giving out real source cause they actually learned it. This conversation is just so nasty like u really out here defending a rapist character in front of a survivor.

I choose not to share my own life experience and my academic field because I regard it as private matters.
There is no source, that's why I'm asking for it; some actual legit articles to back up their claim. I looked for the terms she/he used and found that it didn't match up with what was said. You are welcome to do your own research.

When did I ever say or even imply that I was in favor of the rape. I find it even distasteful to incorporate it in the story about romance. I'm not defending the seme I'm just saying that their past and present behavior is problematic, BOTH the seme AND the uke. I just find it absurd that people can read this story and still find their present situation "healthy".