unknown's Topics (171)

Yes... afterall shin is the one who received blessings from dragon...so only shin could have a child,

This one. I don't know why a lot of people talk shit about him when he's the most responsible in the story. He's the only one who owns up his mistakes.

i disagree strongly, cain may look at his actions but he’s crossed his boundaries with jooin several times, it’s way unrealistic for their relationship to be a romantic one, cain is stuck on a past of them and it’s truly unrealistic. while yahwi is actually trying to be better it’s called character development and he’s going through it slowly, if you can’t see it you’re being ignorant

Yahwi has crossed his boundaries with Jooin more than Cain has. And Yahwi maybe starting to change a little bit but he still has not said sorry for one thing for what he put Jooin through

like you and i said —- it’s character development, he’s changing slowly maybe in time he will apologize i cant say when since i’m not the author

They just hate yahwi for his behaviour. And attitude but nobody understamd him nobody try to 7nderstand him . I somehow remember eren when i think about yahwi. I

What is there to understand? There is nothing that can excuse his behavior

So your saying hes just a fucking dumbass . And just throw him outta here

i agree you have to look into the depth of a character to truly understand them, i don’t see eren in yahwi but it’s somehow understandable yahwi is a misunderstood character he deserves better from the fandom.

I never said that he is a “fucking dumbass”. I’m just confused on what there is to understand about him. You are right about Cain stans hating him for his behavior, but are we wrong for that? No. Like I said before, there is nothing that can excuse his behavior

If one party says stop (especially if followed by "I'm scared"), and the other party doesn't, it stops being consensual.

Are you kidding? Did you see Hiiragi yell at him not to stop? And that he understood what was about to happen? And wouldn't anyone be scared if a d**k was about to be shoved up their ass??? Anyone would balk at that their first time. But there was still consent, he was even relieved at the end because shizu was smiling.

Come on now, hiiragi was scared of his smile as u can see in that panel where he saw his grinning panel there was so much focused on his mouth so i suppose it was from hiiragi's perspective and after penetration hiiragi never told shizu to stop plus if u see he was relieved at the end and remembered his that grinning smile from childhood part so everything is fine i mean why u want to make issues here when it was fully consensual i dont get u ppl
┑(￣Д ￣)┍

Plus if u know that "im scared/no" kinda parts are very common in yaoi mangas.Yeah if hiiragi wanted to stop shizu he could have done and told shizu to stop but no he didn't becoz he was not afraid of having done the deed with shizu plus shizu literally told him that he was going to cry for sure and he did but at the last part shizu held him so everything is fine... i hope im clear here...

exactly. moreover shizu also asked so many times if hiiragi is sure and is consenting. people be so confidently dumb istg

Yes thank u, u r so right the boy literally asked for permission from hiiragi nd when he got allowance/permitted then only he did everything ppl really making issues with this chap which is clearly consensual..

"Did you see Hiiragi yell at him not to stop?"
Yes we did. Curious how you're the one ignoring anything that comes AFTER that.
Like page19, panel 3: "WHAT!? NO WAY, NO WAY! I'M SCARED, I'M SCARED!! WAIT-"

If this isn't a clear indication that one's partner is uncomfortable and even having second thoughts then I don't know what is.

But at that point, Shizu had gone feral and ignores everything Hiragi says. He probably wouldn't have stopped even if Hiragi told him to. And notice what this whole ordeal actually says about Shizu as a person. Shizu clearly looks Hiragi right in the face, and it' clear Hiragi is scared, trembling and crying and telling him to stop, but the only thing Shizu can think about is how much pleasure he's getting from all this. Who actually does that to the person they're supposed to "worship as a God"? Being in love doesn't excuse caveman behaviour.

But hey, let's just ignore all those troubling implications because there was consent in the very beginning, right?

"And that he understood what was about to happen?"
If Hiragi fully anticipated what would happen he wouldn't be crying and pleading with Shizu to stop on page 19. This is clearly dubcon, since even if Hiragi consented in the beginning, he didn't fully understand what would happen and the scene is drawn in a manner to evoke more a sexual assault scenario than one of lovemaking. It's a win-win for the aurthor, since everyone is still discussing this chapter and arguing over what happened.

"he was even relieved at the end because shizu was smiling. "
He was relieved that the whole ordeal was finally over, probably in the same way a housewife would be relieved that the beatings had finally stopped. What is clear is that Hiragi didn't enjoy the experience.
This was not a beautiful and tender lovemaking scene, this was somebody having to endure an incredibly painful experience because their boyfriend is an inconsiderate asshole and also probably a sadist.
Remember girls, male lust = violence.

I just hope the author addresses this and doesn't just handwave it now that the couple has gotten together and the audience has gotten their porn.

"Pleaded with him to stop".... I can't even.
Dude. Ive been learning Japanese for years and i read the entire chapter in Japanese. There was 100% consent. Name one BL maga where the bottom doesn't say "no" at least once during sex? Hiiragi didn't say "no" he said "iyada, kowai, matte" -> no way, this is scary, wait! - like he's in disbelief. Who would even say "YES STICK IT IN ME" the first time anyone has sex??????????
The choked out "yeah" and "what is this" are all said in the throes of passion.
I can't believe you're trying to go against what the author actually fucking wrote??? And acting so confidently dumb???
'he was relieved after the whole "ordeal"?? You're crazy. Then BL mangas are full of "ordeal"s for the bottoms.
Like, you should actually stop reading manga with mature scenes if everything is gonna be dubcon/noncon to you. Yikes.

“ Ive been learning Japanese for years”
Maybe, but you seem to understand very little of human interactions, as we will see. Oh, and since you’ve decided to go for personal insults ( a dead giveaway that you don’t actually have an argument, since now your attacking the person instead of their comments), expect them in kind from here on out.

“ You're crazy. Then BL mangas are full of "ordeal"s for the bottoms. ”
And you deny this? Are we going to pretend rape, dubcon, rape-to-love aren’t incredibly popular in BL?

“Name one BL maga where the bottom doesn't say "no" at least once during sex?”
I can name several, just finished Dear Gene yesterday actually. But what does any of that have to do with what’s happening in THIS manga? Nothing, but nice attempt at distraction.
Just because Given has a track record with dubious consent doesn’t mean every BL does.

“ Who would even say "YES STICK IT IN ME" the first time anyone has sex??????????”
1. Only a woman with little experience would write something this naive, I’ve known plenty of guys who’ve said precisely this in that situation. I’VE said precisely this in that situation.
2. Hiragi never said those words anyway.

“ Hiiragi didn't say "no" he said "iyada, kowai, matte" -> no way, this is scary, wait!-like he'sin disbelief”
1. He did use the word “no”, you even quoted it.
2. If a person is shivering and crying (probably from the pain) and looking you in the eye whilst telling you they’re scared and to wait, you don’t get to respond “Well, you said everything was fine 13 pages ago so I’m just going to ignore you now”. Seriously, what the fuck is actually wrong with you?
As I said, you keep hanging on to what Hiragi says in the beginning, but then ignore, not just Hiragi’s words, but everything else that happens afterwards: his reactions and Shizu’s reaction to his reaction. This is cherry picking things that help your aurgument, and ignoring everything that doesn’t.
I agree it wasn’t rape, but it’s incredibly disingenuous to suggest everything was “100% consensual” here.
You didn’t even attempt to address what any of this actually says about Shizu or his actions. I’m curious, do you actually think Shizu did ANYTHING wrong?

“ The choked out "yeah" and "what is this" are all said in the throes of passion.”
He’s also bawling his eyes out from the pain. This was not a beautiful and tender lovemaking scene, this was somebody having to go through an incredibly painful experience because their boyfriend is an inconsiderate asshole.

“ I can't believe you're trying to go against what the author actually fucking wrote??? And acting so confidently dumb???”
Nowhere have I done that. What the author intended and what’s actually on the page are two different things. Everything I’ve argued is what’s based on the pages themselves, as anyone can go read for themselves. Nothing you’ve provided goes against that.

“you should actually stop reading manga with mature scenes if everything is gonna be dubcon/noncon to you.”
Not everything in manga is dubcon just because this was. It’s also pretty presumptive of you to assume I’d stop reading anything just because it has violence, rape or dubcon. Your projecting your own insecurities onto me. I have no problem, and even sometimes enjoy reading works with problematic elements, but I’m not as dishonest as you to pretend they don’t exist or handwave them away.

Damn you're crazy. I don't even wanna deal with your bullshit. You're clearly the type that's offended by everything. So lame.
And honestly, you expect me to read this novel you wrote? The fact that you took the time to type down so much shows you're petty and vengeful. I have zero interest in dealing with whackjobs like you. I'll have better luck trying to talk to wall.
If you have a problem with Given, stop reading it. You're shitty opinions inventing trouble where it doesn't exist, is not needed here. Go away lol. You can stay mad for all I care pfft.

Imagine calling someone “crazy” and “confidently dumb” and then running away the moment they get any pushback. But in my experience the biggest bullies are truly cowards.

Ooh you understand bullies? Sounds like you have a lot of experience being a bully. Wow! Stay away from me, you bully. And maybe try pulling your head outta your ass.

Still projecting your own insecurities onto me I see.
Seriously, YOUR the one who started with personal insults and are now running away when somebody fights back, anyone can read the thread. And then the hypocrisy to suddenly pretend your above it all…truly astonishing.
But I’ll let this be the last response, since you are unable to have any further discussion.

Damn i wanted to stop with the first exchange but you just wouldn't shut up. Thank goodness you finally decided to. Take your toxicity elsewhere instead of jumping down the throats of random strangers on the internet accusing them of bullshit you do/feel. Screw off fr.

i'm your stan (๑•ㅂ•)و✧

(￣∇￣") not proud of it, but thank you! I'm your stan for saying that!

You're a gem for trying with these weirdos. Read through your entire comment exchange and facepalmed at every anonymous response. Some people clearly haven't yet experienced real relationships, painful sexual experiences, or even sex at all. And they certainly don't understand how consent works.

Of course, OF COURSE, anyone has the right to take back consent at anytime during/leading up to intercourse. But that is in no way what Hiiragi did. He never took back his consent. Sometimes (especially first times or "tight" times) it hurts like a bitch and you might ask the other party to stop or wait. Sometimes it feels a little scary and you need to pause for a minute, but you don't necessarily want to stop. Shizu checked multiple times before putting it in and Hiiragi literally yelled at him to stop checking that it was ok because he was 1000% FINE with Shizu having sex with him. He wanted it and that's why he wasn't in any distress whatsoever when thinking, "Geez. I'm over here crying, but he's grinning like crazy." That's what he wanted more than anything. To be the one Shizu worshipped, the only one who could bring that grin to his face.

For the record, anal sex hurts. Hiiragi was underprepared for how much, even though Shizu warned him, BUT Hiiragi was desperate to see it through to the end no matter what. That's it. That's all. No rape. Purely consensual.

I've had sex that I just described where I was scared as shit something was gonna break but knew in my bones that was overreacting, and sex where I demanded we stop in the middle of the act and did, and sex that was absolutely nonconsensual. They are not the same.

Shizu and Hiiragi discussed the deed more than most couples I've seen in any manga, not just BL. Hell. Shizu even warned Hiragi two issues prior what it was he wanted to do to him. Despite all the "warnings" and the repeated "You don't understand what I'm telling you" Hiiragi assures him again and again that's what he wants. Shizu doesn't like to put effort into things but he put so much effort into pushing Hiragi away because he didn't believe he could really love/want him in the same way. Just like with the gold paper, it was everything Shizu really wanted and the one person who truly understood and knew what he really wanted was his most beloved (the teacher didn't think Shizu cared about the paper), and that's why he grinned that way. Not because he's a masochist like so many have interpreted.

It was beautiful and flawless (though I must admit I liked the original translation that was here better)

Wow. Thank you for taking the time to say this. I've completely given up on trying to convince anyone. All I know is that these weirdos will eat their own words when they read the rest of the chapters of Given.
But i also know they're probably never gonna stop trying to ruin stuff for others. That's just how it's gonna be.

You've explained it beautifully. The first time i read the chapter was in Japanese and i had goosebumps over how imperfectly perfect Shizu and hiiragi's first time was. Awkward, noisy, painful, messy, rushed. It's an incredible chapter. And the way the author connected the past with the present... Now that's ART.
Still, having read both versions on here and the Japanese version also, I must say the one by the scan team is simply * chefs kiss *
The first one wasn't bad but it just cannot compare to this one. I think we readers are blessed to read the fan-scan by a team that seems obsessed with not diverting an inch from what the author writes :D idk how they do it because it's really hard.

I appreciate the hell out of the team, don't get me wrong, there were just a few sentences that made me swoon in the other. ha.

I just saw the notification for this topic nd Thanks to you, u really elaborated nd explained it in the best manner ヾ(❀╹◡╹)ﾉ~ kudos to u nd to ur explanation....thank you once again, some ppl really need to read this what u wrote in this topic nd as for those who doesn't listen they can ignore nd be negative nd create misunderstanding regarding this chapter...

I LOVE THERAPY GAME

YOUR PFP AND ACC NAME TOO, YOU GOT TASTE HOMIE

OUR TASTES >>>>>>

I see what you mean, and you definitely make a point at the end.

IKR its like borderline misogynistic

Look I know the seme changed but still,you can't make the uke forget of the seme's past Attitude towards him like dude he basically ruined his school life just because of what?he was being too nice and friendly and that he uses perfume?What the hell's wrong with the seme?if I were the Uke,fuck I'd hate him too.