I’m fine with age gap romances if at least the older one met the other as an adult. Their backstory just turned me off from the hyung cause he basically saw the mc grow up. I don’t know how I feel if he’s actually the second ml lol.
100% agreed I was kinda into it before but then he knew him as a kid and watched him grow up it's all gross now idk why you have dislikes...it would be weird if they hooked up
Agreed, i mean i thought they have adorable bond or what so ever u want to call, but reading this chapter, i kinda feel meh about it if in future he is 2nd ml fr, i just know he will play major role in story i didnt think this way, good knows
For everyone getting mad and asking why is blondie’s here, if you guys remember taeman told him to protect dahyuk since it’s his fault their in danger anyway. So if you're one of those guys who hates him and wants him to make up for what he did, y’all should be happy right now, not upset cause he’s following through with what he owes right now.
I’m kind of shocked people are holding so much visceral hatred towards the blondie lol. Considering the general light hearted tone of this series that doesn’t take itself serious even at its most climactic moments, I assumed most people would get the gist and just let it go the same way the characters in-universe are. Cause regardless of how people would react to something like this in real life, the characters in this manhwa don’t take shit seriously.
Like it’s one thing to be mad but some of y’all genuinely wishing on his downfall or hoping for some insane heartfelt redemption arc are doing too much in my opinion cause it’s not that type of story and that’s not gonna happen. I’m sure he’ll make up for it someway but not as deeply as some of you guys want.
I read someone say they hope he doesn't end up with the boss...poor guy wants to be validated by boss but his way was absolutely shit putting others in danger. He needs to redeem more...but I still love him
I get this is just a way to move the plot forward but he was still really dumb for someone who's supposed to be a part of a top secret super assassin group lol. I don't have him but it did really piss me off how little sense he had. I dont think hes gonna have a major redemption arc considering how lighthearted his meetup was with taeman but there definitely should have some consequence. He messed the entire operation up and almost got taeman killed
*I dont hate him
Right, light hearted series that still depicts some dark af themes so that part of him messing up has major consequences for main couple even. I understand why some people would hate him cause he keeps spouting "follow boss's orders" every god dang episode hes in and then he messes up by not following em, as if hes exempt. Either way its good for character growth and plot, but alas HES SO ANNOYING AHAHAH (╯°Д °)╯╧╧
I understand that. My comment is more so aimed at the people making very strongly worded emotional rants either about how he must suffer the same way taemin did or about needing an in-depth character growth arc. If you dislike him or find him annoying I get that cause you’re not obligated to like every character.
Honestly i have friends like that who take these things too seriously and my god its impossible to change their opinion. (To calm down, its just fiction) Great people, but their opinions can get crazyyy (￣∇￣")
For sure. I guess at the end of the day everyone consumes entertainment differently which is why each person’s reaction tend to vary.
Oh I get that. I feel like praying on his downfall is too much since he isnt a bad guy he was just way overzealous. Honestly, I kind of get those people wanting a redemption arc but I dont think redemption is the right word, cause what he did was a mistake, he didnt intend to mess anything up. I think rather than redemption arc he should have a character arc so he can mature. All in all, I think getting pissed at him(like me lol) is only natural but I think hating him completely is too much. But like u said everyone has their opinions
YES that's why I was mad at him lol it was kind of hypocritical since the entire series hes obsessed with taeman doing his own thing in his personal life, but cant even follow a direct order about a super important mission. Its irritating but the character growth will be great ლ(´ڡ`ლ)
This is for the people who don't get why a lot of people are so much more upset with Skyler than Cirrus even though Cirrus made mistakes as well.
Although Cirrus also fucked up these past couple of chapters, the issue here is that the difference in their traumas arranges it in such a way that largely favors Skyler and puts Cirrus at a disadvantage. That’s why any pain Skyler inflicts does more damage than Cirrus’.
To put it into perspective: Cirrus can’t stand being abandoned so he’ll immediately apologize to any argument to please Skyler. Skyler’s trauma response is the opposite. He’ll guard himself and protect himself so he can’t get hurt again; prioritizing himself.
Skyler protects himself due to his trauma while Cirrus is willing to hurt himself as long as Skyler stays with him. So while they both are traumatized, Cirrus’ trauma response compared to Skyler’s puts him at a higher disadvantage than Skyler. This means the pain Skyler can potentially inflict on Cirrus is much more damaging than anything Cirrus can do to Skyler. That’s why more people are hurt and dissatisfied by Skyler than Cirrus.
So it’s been told numerous times by novel readers that Ines was slightly whitewashed, especially at the beginning of the manhwa where she is manipulating carcel. Is there a moment past the point at which the manhwa is at in the novel where this is revisited? Because I feel like that would be a great second opportunity for the manhwa writers to possibly do a better job.
I’m asking cause I love flawed characters who change and grow. So I’m a little disappointed that some of Ines’ flaws have been removed. I also prefer visual story telling to verbal, so I most likely won’t be reading the novel either and will stick to the manhwa which is why I wanted to see how inaccurate it is to the novel in regards to character portrayal.
To what extent do you mean white washed, cause I do know that in her previous life in the manhwa, she is said to have "gone on holiday" to a very sunny location and spent a lot of time in the sun, thus getting tanned and setting a trend in high society to become tanner. Before that, she was quite white (as all the other court ladies) because they spent so much time inside (in the manhwa).
In the second time line and this timeline, she's drawn as having white skin because she's spends all of her time inside. I haven't read the novel but it would make sense that she would be pale since, again, she spends so much time inside.
It would be a different discussion if, in the novel, she's depicted as having darker/tanner skin in all of the timelines. Are there any excerpts from the novel that you or a novel reader have that described her as not being white that proves that the manhwa has white washed her?
“Whitewashed” as in an individual or character has been simplified or removed of their negative flaws, resulting in them being less complex and much more appealing. I don’t mean the color of her skin. I mean it in a literary way.
I’m pretty sure that’s one of the definitions of the term “whitewashed,” but if I used it wrong my bad.
I have read the entire novel. Inés is indeed a deeply flawed character. She freely admits she has a bad personality. She even says she’s a little mean because she takes after both her parents. Korean novel readers early on complained about her. It’s probably why the manhwa reduced her flaws or made them vague. However, discerning readers can see through them at times. I find you’re one of them. There are others who also saw that Ines was pretty flawed and didn’t use her trauma as an excuse. Ines doesn’t use her trauma as an excuse either.
Later in the story, the fact that she chose Carcel to use him and dump him will be addressed. Carcel realizes the truth on his own anyway and doesn’t say anything about it. He already partly realized the truth after Ines brought the crazy woman into their home to entice him to cheat. He’ll get confirmation later after he discovers certain things. However, being the truly good person he is, he keeps it to himself. Moreover, Carcel is always grateful for Ines’s love as though it isn’t something he deserves. He thinks that way in every single lifetime. He’s the only man in this story who thinks that way. Ines even tells him later that he always seem to have a low bar for her return of love.
Ines also realized that she misjudged Carcel terribly after she woke up from the dream of the palace. She admitted she was wrong from the start about him but of course the manhwa cut it out because we can’t have Ines admit she’s wrong. However, manhwa will not be able to cut out her tearful and emotional apology to him later about choosing him to use and dump. If they do, they will be doing her character a grave injustice. Ines gets truly amazing development in this story. At the end of it all, she makes a beautiful confession of love about how much Carcel has changed her. The confession is so beautiful that Koreans in Reddit translation community said the sentiment is so beautiful that the meaning cannot be sufficiently translated into English.
I know as a reader, I find it absolutely amazing how much she’s changed by the end of the story. In the side story, Ines is like a spoiled wife, daughter-in-law, daughter, sister-in-law, etc. She changed a lot and is a very bright and normal person. That all began with Carcel. Every single relationship she enjoys is due in part to Carcel and his love that changed her. Even her relationship with Raul and Juana, her faithful servants. Manhwa doesn’t tell readers that Ines, in Calztela, credited Carcel for thinking of Raul and Juana for the first time in a deeper way. She was taking them for granted without any thought about what happened to them when she killed herself in the crown princess timeline. Fir the first time Ines thought about that and it was in Calztela and she immediately wondered wgat Carcel was doing to her because he was making her see things that were lacking in the way she treated and thought of her closest servants. All of these are ways in which Ines grew and developed over the course of the novel story.
There will also be some shocking revelations that rattle Ines about the way she treated Ines in a past life. Manhwa won’t be able to cover those up. She will get memories of some pretty mean things she said to a different Carcel. They will scare her a lot but they help to develop her character.
Ahhhhhhh, my bad. I've never heard the term "whitewashed" in that form, you learn something new everyday lol~
That’s really great to here. So it looks like the manhwa, while a lot more subtle and a little simplified, is still more or less following the same format. I’m glad there’s more revelations coming. I’ll probably grow to appreciate ines even more as the story progresses. Thanks for the detailed description. It was a really nice summary of Ines.
Nah you’re good. I only learned it recently too.
Hm. I did not read the novel, so I cannot relate to that, but as "only manhwa reader" the chapters 9 and following were... a sudden dip in mood and graveness. So she was vain in her first life; aching and abused but both can be true at the same time. One could argue that the exposure of her first life was cut short, but on the other hand: maybe there wasn't any room in Inés first life.
In her second life, she picked a swerve and called that love: and again, either there's no room to depict WHAT she loves about Emilio or WHY (like, apart from him being soft and as NOT-OSCAR as possible) ...or there's not much to say. She later admitted (about ch. 37/38) that she sold the necklace (among other valuables) and that she ruined him; that no matter what, she could not step down from her entitlement, that no matter how long she lived like that, she never learned how to spend and save money and in her unchangeable ways dragged down Emilio who couldn't (wouldn't? didn't dare to?) oppose her in any way.
Her reasoning behind saving Raul more than once reveals cold calculation; at this point I started asking myself if she was just denying emotional attachement or didn't develop yet a sense of appreciation.
I like her character, and I am cheering her on; but she's neither faultless nor "perfect projection material" (at least to me, cause there's plenty of things she does and decides to do that have me like "...but WHY".)
I’m not even sure how to unpack Ines. She’s an extremely difficult/complicated character in one sense but surprisingly cooperative at times. There is so much to her over the timelines but it is always only Carcel who she learns from. It’s like he can get through to her when other people can’t. For instance, there’s a hidden timeline where her psychology is so unnecessarily complicated that it was clear any husband would give up on her. Carcel is a very easygoing guy but he is not by any stretch of the imagination stupid. In fact, of the people his age, including Ines, he is remarkably the wisest of them all. His approach with Ines is mostly to go along with her but he always firmly put his foot down when he thinks her decisions will harm her. (I’m trying to be vague to not give away too much). Whenever he does this, Ines resists but always end up realizing that his decision is and was best for her. That’s why she can trust him always with her life. He also knows which battles to fight with her and Carcel as a character is surprisingly responsible and capable. He knows how to take care of his family. It’s one of the most endearing traits about him as a son, brother and husband.
With Oscar, Ines lived 10 married years. She courted with him 10 years before marriage. That means 20 years with Oscar. Ines was always spoiled. Her father and brother spoil her. We can see some of that attitude in the recent ch when she talks about pestering her father to give her the gun he bought for Luciano. In that same timeline, Ines was shallow and loved the idea of power she would receive as crown princess. From beginning to end in that life, Ines never grew as a person. She experienced hell but her character didn’t develop and mature. She was always a fighter as Valeztenas are, so at least she fought Oscar tooth and nail. Everything still ended dramatically in the end though just like most of her married life.
Then Ines regressed and made the impulsive decision to seduce the painter who came to paint her portrait. She threw everything to the wind and didn’t think of the consequences of defying the imperial family. Her excuse is she was looking for love after Oscar trampled on her and made her feel dirty and unloved. She chose the perfect FOIL to Oscar because the man she chose was the extreme opposite of Oscar. Not only that, unlike Oscar, he literally worshipped her like a goddess. It was a complete 180 to the life she lived with Oscar since not only was she loved like a goddess, she was poor as dirt unlike the opulent life she lived with Oscar. Still, at the end of those four years, she didn’t learn anything nor did she change and develop. I would say she did heal enough from the trauma of Oscar but then she got a new trauma from the end of this life. So, from those four years of life, she didn’t develop nor mature much as a person. She didn’t even learn practical lessons although poor. She still can’t cook, sew properly, make nor manage money. I doubt if she ever held a broom in her hand too. In the end, because things ended so dramatically, she romanticizes that life in the early part of the story until the truth would creep out here and there.
So, with the first guy, she was subordinate and with the second guy, he was subordinate. With Carcel, unlike the other two, she’s equal and they act like equals. Ines listens to Carcel just like he listens to her. They talk things out. I think purely from the type of personality Carcel has, he’s able to deal with her difficult personality. In the beginning of the story, Carcel told Ines he likes girls with bad personality. He always sees Ines for who she is even when he loves her deeply. He doesn’t mind her bad traits at all. I think due to this personality of his, Ines looks at his example and it inspires her to want to change for him. For example, when Ines realized Carcel knew that she chose him to dump him, yet he still continued loving her and treating her like his world, Ines couldn’t understand his love. But because of this, it kept on making her want to change and improve for him even though he didn’t ask her to. He always accepts her just as she is. It’s Ines on her own who wants to be a better wife to him and wants to do everything in her power to protect him. That’s just one of the ways Carcel has influenced her without him even knowing it.
Ah so, he comes full circle since, from one viewpoint his "I'm only six!" is the perfect answer of a otherwise unbothered kid who's (understandably) overwhelmed by everyone talking in circles. From the other viewpoint its the steadfast answer of a kid who can recognize talking in circles as just that and insists on "I'm only six (what do you want me to do about this)". Put all his stats in common sense (and shoved the rest in "wife-worship (extra)")
LOL. Probably though some of his stats should be in duty as well.
The reaction to these couple of chapters is why, even though I agree Shizuma has his flaws and isn’t a saint, I think people are cherry-picking and being overly biased to minato either because of his trauma, or they can relate more, or they just like him more than Shizuma.
Like it’s insane how even after these chapters, people are more pissed off about the story making minato “look bad” and shizuma making light of minato with the “just that?” comment, yet no one seems to give a shit about minato almost assaulting him or the author justifying yuka’s cheating on shizuma and essentially making shizuma victim blame himself by saying he deserved to be CHEATED ON????
Like people saying they hate the “just that?” comment and that it was brushed off too soon. Keep that same energy for minato almost assaulting Shizuma then. Cause with that same logic, shizuma brushed off the assault too soon too and just laughed it off and got horny again.
I’m not trying to say Shizuma doesn’t have flaws. These whole couple of chapters emphasized that both of them were in the wrong. But the fact that people are more triggered by the “just that?” comment than the constant emphasis that Yuka was justified in cheating on shizuma, really makes me feel like people aren’t being as objective as they claim they are.
Oh no I agree, I was mad as fuck at shizuma with previous update, but now that we’ve seen the whole thing I just feel like they’re really toxic for each others ^^"
Like, I love them, and I hope they can grow up and progress in a more healthy way but…
The way I see it, shizuma definitely lack awareness & he really need to learn to balance his job and private life better. I get working as a vet is demanding but plenty of people manage to work just their amount of hours with a few extra without sabotaging their family life. Sometimes he needs to say no.
I also feel that knowing Minato has untreated trauma, he should take it more seriously (adapt a little or sometimes it feels he entirely overlook it )
And if he can’t do that then I definitely feel considering Minato’s needs, they’re not a good match.
As for Minato… well, he’s self-aware. It’s a good start. But he should definitely see a therapist. The way he react to some stuff is not normal and his lover shouldn’t have to shoulder and accommodate so much or else he goes mad. Some stuff that are here can’t heal completely but they can improve.
lmao yes, i love them both but minato was in a shitty mood, ruined their date, physically and somewhat sexually assaulted shizuma and when shizuma asks what made him so aggressive and pissed he says "you smiled at someone else", 100% understandable to ask "that's it?" because it is absolutely abnormal to react like that because of a smile. that reaction is unhinged and not easy to comprehend lol??
"shizuma is insensitive", please. if their roles were reversed, everyone would call minato's jealousy obsessive and red flag. i mean it was even minato's plan to become an obsessive top that binds his lover with "pleasure" (still the worst thing in this story so far, how can anyone take that seriously)...ppl just pass it off because he's the uke and bc they identify with him more
I genuinely am so confused why Taku is widely considered a victim? If anyone reads the story without bias you’ll see that Taku knew something was up between Haesoo and Joowon, that’s why he got interested in Haesoo initially. He wanted to get in between them. He wasn’t a pure angel like y’all claim. Only afterwards did he actually grow to like Haesoo. And even then, he always compared Haesoo to his possessions. A common one was candy. When Taku felt like Haesoo was slipping away from him he had a flashback of his candy jar being out of reach and the candy falling. Essentially treating Haesoo like a possession and not a human being. Joowon called out his suspicious behavior a couple of time too like when he told Haesoo how he’s worried that Haesoo will get hurt and that Taku isn’t srs about him since Taku never told Haesoo he was leaving Korea. Haesoo had to find out from Joowon. And that’s just one example out of many.
The biggest issue is how people paint Haesoo as the one in the wrong when Haesoo ran to Joowon when he thought he was injured in the final season. He wasn’t because literally right after Haesoo dumped Joowon and right before Taku and Haesoo started their weird dating/ fuckbudy relationship, Haesoo TOLD Taku that he’s not ready to date anyone srsly since he’s recovering from dumping Joowon. Taku INSISTED and told Haesoo he’s fine with it just being a trial run. Yet everyone acts like Haesoo lead Taku on and used him, when Taku literally insisted and wanted it even though Haesoo told him it’s not a good idea. Whats worse is when Haesoo realized who he loves and that that person is possibly injured so he needs to go to them, Taku hypocritically insults and guilt trips Haesoo and make himself the victim even though Taku again 1. knew what he was getting into; 2. insisted anyways even tho Haesoo warned him; 3. and even assured Haesoo that it’s not even official and that he wants Haesoo to use him. And readers read that and agree with Taku that he’s the innocent angel who just got caught up in it? Like no, he brought it on himself.
Also I feel like because joowon is more aggressive and straightforward while takus more passive and subtlety manipulative people like to only label joowon as the one in the wrong. But if you reread every moment Taku and joowon interacted, you’ll see that Taku instigated shit 90% of the time. What made Joowon stupid was that he fell for it and reacted aggressively to it. But it doesn’t change the fact that Taku purposefully started shit. Like the lighter; Taku left it on purpose. Even when Joowon Haesoo and Taku had dinner first; Taku started provoking Joowon on purpose knowing he was sensitive. Yet since Joowon is the aggressive one everyone acts like Taku didn’t do shit.
What’s I like beings so sexy and so right all the time
You summed it up so well
It feels like this is the first time the manhwa is properly expressing Ines’ acknowledgement of her flaws. Whenever this happens in previous chapters, it feels very vaguely worded and dismissive. However, in this chapter, they did a good job of really showing how much she changed carcel’s life by using him as a means to an end. She’s showing proper self awareness of her wrongs and feeling guilty for once. I hope more of this is touched up on cause I’m really here for Ines’ development.
I know people love her as she is right now, but I find her treatment of others, not just carcel, to be disturbing and something she needs to work on. I’m hoping she’ll be an improved version of herself by the end of it.
It is the first time unfortunately. In the novel:
1.She did feel disgusted by herself for trying to frame him but the manhwa cut that scene out where she self-reflected after he left the room to get a new washcloth to clean her up before the dream.
2. Then when she woke up after the dream, she felt a sense of shame for judging and choosing him purely based on rumors after she remembered him helping her in the garden of the palace.
3. Then the next day when she asked Raul to check on him at work, she couldn’t feel easy when she thought he was still very angry about the crazy woman incident and she tried to convince herself that it didn’t matter if he fell out of love with her.
These are all moments cut from the manhwa that shows the process of how she finally got honest with herself to finally ditch her divorce plan.
omg I should really go and read the novel be done with it T___T <3
Where did you read the novel?
Novel link pls
It’s good to know her developments organic in the novel. It sounds like a good read.
It’s weird they would remove those from the manhwa though cause it feels like it would be so easy to add it in. All they would have to do is add in an extra speech bubble hear and there and it would’ve be been so much clearer. They wouldn’t even have to change much of the manhwa itself.
Everything that helps with the development of Ines and Carcel’s relationship was cut. I’m not kidding when I say this. If you check out twitter, there are posts from novel readers who point this out. None of us understand why they cut so many moments that show their development while having long panels of comedy.
I’ve felt this for a while now, but I feel like carcel’s such a breath of fresh air in the story. All the characters are great, but since a lot of the main characters in this story are very headstrong or pessimistic, carcel’s optimism and easygoing attitude makes him very refreshing in my opinion. He can accept anything without being stubborn, egotistical, or sensitive about it.
For example, a moment that really stuck with me is carcel’s teenager years. Most people would probably focus on the cheating, but I viewed him as admirable. He was an individual who was aware they were forced into an engagement against their will, yet he eventually sucked it up, moved past that and accepted it with no ill will towards ines, even going as far as to court her back. Yes, he eventually realizes he loved her, but at that moment he didn’t know it, but still acted so easygoing which I found impressive.
It’s done very subtlety and not really emphasized on, but if you pay attention to all of their small conversations together, Ines is quite tactless in the way she addresses and talks to him, yet he always just lets it go. It’s not even like he isn’t hurt, you can see he is, but he just decides to focus on the positive. His easygoing personality that is willing to accept every criticism makes him insanely likable in my opinion and feels like a trait that makes him more of a “good” character rather than a gray one because it’s a trait that allows him to easily fix any flaw he has in literally a chapter. He doesn’t need a long character growth arc. Someone telling him he sucks and he should fix himself is enough for him to be like “okay I’ll fix that” and he actually does.
OMG! Finally someone who gets the essence of Carcel’s character. This is so rare. This is exactly why I thought the author did a marvelous job with the ML. Just wait until you see more about how he is with his younger brother, in his past lives, his responsibility as an heir and the way he protected his mother’s hurt heart even when he was just a little boy of 6 years old. He always say sorry even when he did nothing wrong. He doesn’t hold grudges at all against people who do him wrong. Like Ines said last chapter, he doesn’t care about endangering himself but cannot bear to see her hurt in any way. That’s the kind of person he is for the people he loves.
Love this
Thank you for this analysis, it made my day. You explained it so well and voiced my thoughts exactly. There are so many people bitter about Carcel, but I just consider he did the best he could and made mistakes along the way, like the human being he is. The pressure of an arranged marriage and all and the way he never hold resentment to me is just a demonstration how thoughtful he was. Thank you (づ￣ ³￣)づ
My issue with Chungi isn’t that he messed up once. It’s cause he made that same mistake twice with no consequences.
1. He first gaslights the mc, making him feel like it was his fault and then dips.
2. Then he triggered the ml completely unprovoked just cause he can and then dipped again.
3. On top of that, he never apologized for doing either of those things.
4. He also keeps sticking to the idea that he was dating the mc in the past even though they both understood they were just fuckbuddies and used that misconception to justify/ excuse all of his wrongs.
And none of that has been resolved and now the main story has been interrupted at a climactic moment in order to watch chungi and the manager have fun instead. It just makes it hard to enjoy the chapter and his character as a whole.
From what I've seen in the raws he's at least gonna have to face the consequences of what he did to Inwoo but yeah same I wished they would've adressed all of this before they started the thing between him and the manager.
I’m the biggest Chungi hater
same