A question on personal taste.

i honestly don’t care if it’s MC or ML, in bl, i want the seme to be the one chasing and yearning, in straight romance, i absolutely want the guy to be DOWN at his knees for his girl. always men yearning even if they’re the MCs

Hm that's kinda giving stereotypical gender roles. But that's fine if you're into that. Is there a reason why though? Just curious.

i like a yearner/obsessive MC but then the top should be princess/sweet enough. kind of like a dom yearner bottom(badass for everyone else, down bad for ML) and sub dense top(timid to everyone else but surprisingly horse in bed yet a crybaby/princess)
i love a good dynamic that makes you second guess heteronormative roles.
some examples:
–red string quests (yearner crybaby top, clueless whiny yet protective strong bottom)
–die in my arms( the bottom is CRAZY let me tell you T_T but oh i love his obsession. he is a bottom only for MC(top) and needs MC’s c*ck like oxygen i kid you not .but with anyone else he was nonchalant toxic top, but forever obsessed with MC. and only wants MC in a possessive way, even if he was sleeping with others. (MC was married to someone else at that time)those b*tches are kinky and freaky and vanilla?they never heard of it)
–kiss me if you can(the MC has a push/pull tug of war with ML. he is obv attracted to him, protects him, but at the same time does not want to be with ML because he thinks ML doesn't remember him. (ML and MC had a one night stand and lost their v-card(both of them) during ML's rut and MC got pregnant and had a child.) the MC is one of my favourite omegas of all time. so badass.

no not stereotypical gender roles, it’s like, i just want to see a man getting humiliated and yearn sm for a woman imo it would be giving stereotypical gender roles if the woman would b the one yearning but in this case it’s not.

i don’t really have a reason im just a misandrist and whenever i see femdom i LOVE it, im really into submissive men in fiction, like buff men especially, i love when semes are down bad for their lover and would do anything for them. one of my fav trope. basically i like roles are reversed, i like when bottoms are dominant, love when women take the lead and make top so submissive

have you read sugar trap ?

Die in my arms
Mad place
Ang and/hard boiled love
In my bed (?)
Assorted wildness
Boss bitch baby (except for the omegaverse side story where he fucks others as a top....which is different from die in my arms coz the omega fucks other alphas while still keeping hojin...and like he's goes crazy when hojin leaves so it's not like there's a mutual agreement...also he's kinda a sugar daddy to hojin but hojin isn't looking for benefits....he missed his college assignments.and couldn't graduate coz mc called him out etc...so hojin stays coz of love and mc loves him too but still doesn't treat him like a lover, he isn't considerate...fucking others...(Lol imagine if an alpha only topped for an omega and bottomed for others lol..... something like that)...and he tried to leave many times but finally did when the omega said he had to marry someone else (an omega too)...so yeah he's quite he red flag...but honestly i still liked the fact that he's crazy about hojin

And additionally I love the chaser bottoms /fls even if they're the non dominant types...like a timid man/woman who are surprisingly persistent and can take rejection and still be adamant? Not to the point to being either doormats or stalkers. But yeah somewhere healthily in the middle. The thing is....I feel the frustration n sadness of a character in one sided or unrequited love....and then not getting the reciprocation....but I read it anyway. I'll feel equally bad for a top or a bottom or whatever they are. It's not like a seme or ML is bound to be in love first just because he's the main character's love interest. That should be his only main characteristic. I like when they have layers too..like the mc. I think I like it more when it gives as if there are two main characters ( with mc having a slight more central position but not too skewed).

Oh by gender roles i meant the stereotype that men are supposed to take the initiative etc....and they have to do the "asking out"
Not the humiliation part....

And i seeeee. You're a misandrist. Well it's none of my business i g .

I was just reading it....how did you know

ITS SOOOO GOOD

ohhh LOL okay i get it, yeah it can see as a stereotype

it can be seen*

of fricking course!! the top is so beautiful, and pathetic, i kind of feel bad for him. darling has accepted that he is side piece, still wants to be with the bottom. i cannot wait for the time when they both find out that they lost their v card to each other yet were pretending to be all that pre booking front row seats for their "post-true confesion" f*ck session. i am waiting impatiently.

Damn.... I'm not there yet......but he's mistaken.about being a side piece right ?

i guess one of the reasons could be the inherent power dynamic and switching of the "roles". a receiver is considered more feminine, and has more of a "chastity" thing burdened to them, and more vulnerable. (how irl, virginity of a woman is put on pedestal, and how bottoms/effeminate men are hated more because of homophobia/misogyny). the one "getting fucked" is already a notch below the one "who fucks", in the 'vertical hierarchy' patriarchy creates. so in a sense, the 'top'/man being chaste, or the one who chases, or the one who yearns and is pathetic (a virtue otherwise tied to a 'feminine' stereotype ("crazy obsessive retroactive jealousy induced gf", "clingy girl" and their villain-ification as opposed to the supposed "cool girl" hyper-fixation of men) gives a sense of balance. in a rigged system created by misogyny, a relationship doesn't have true 50-50, and hence the one who is more vulnerable, or more exploited, giving even more looks like it's 60-40 even if they're technically 50-50 on paper. until and unless we ground the levels of s*x and consider it as an equal activity, ie. “making love” instead of "fucking/getting fucked", we will never get out of heteronormativity. it's a very patriarchal concept and condences an otherwise mutual pleasurable activity to giving and taking. and the one 'giving' bending over backwards for the one who 'takes' feels wrong somehow, as you'll never see it in any other give/take situation. but s*x isn't give/take. it shouldn't be. this mindset makes s*x exhausting and taxing mentally, on one party (giver) because it's only so much you can give, but the 'taker' can become greedy or lose interest and walk away, wanting to 'take' from someone else instead.
the extremity of this leads to commodification of one group, solidifying a vertical hierarchy which wasn't previously there. it puts men/tops on a higher step, because no matter how inferior they are they will always be takers, hence there will always be a giver who can be lured to give.
one of the reasons BL has straight female audience is because they can self insert themselves into a demographic which is 'above' them and watch how the story plays out when the atrocities faced by them is shown to be put on men. in a sado-masochistic fashion, they empathise with s.a. in bl's but still can't look away, and are fascinated. they feel bad for bottom, but also feel a satisfaction of a grotesque sense when they see them getting berated. alot of women might have suffered through s.a. or some form of exploitation, and feel the successful manifestation of revenge when it happens to one of a man. the nice guy 'bottom'(who is nice generally) suffers from the hands of playboy s*x offender top, and in some twisted subconscious mind, a woman goes, "see, it's not funny now when it happens to you, huh?" and they like seeing a nice guy suffer because the woman was also nice, wasn't 'bad' in her eyes, she was innocent and was still violated. so it feels eerily satisfactory (maybe) to see a 'nice guy's suffer for the sake of it, because 'boys will be boys' to boys as well.
however, this mentality is problematic and women do become self aware now and then, and some were self aware from day 1. on the other hand, green flag bl's satisfy another craving women fantasize about, 'to be equal' to men. men, even if bottoms, are still equals to men just from the mere virtue of being 'p*nis havers'. so, they possess the quality of a taker no matter how dormant it is. now that i think about it, the reason why yuri is not as popular as yaoi is because of its vagueness of government/taker dynamic. a female top is still a 'v*gina-haver' and by virtue will always possess a 'giver'/'getting f*cked' quality(for the lack of the better word). moreover, top/bottom dynamic in yuri is comparatively vague than that of yaoi. more so, because since ages, s*x has been about p.i.v. (with former definition of r*pe being if and only if p.i.v. happened(which imo is very purity culture based because only p.i.v. has the ability to having taken a v*trinity). a woman cannot take anyone's v*rginity because she's incapable of performing p.i.v., and that's why lesbian hate is more of a ignorant/'won't acknowledge you' kind, while gay hate is more of a shunned/'how can you willingly choose to be a giver's kind (hence why bottoms get more hate than tops in gay community, tops put themselves on 'top' of the hierarchy, pun not intended, there as well too)
ultimately, men love d*cks, men love what they can do with their d*cks, they are obsessed with it. patriarchy becomes euphemism of phallic worship more than it has been men/masculinity worship. if it were masculinity worship, tomboy women wouldn't be called dyke, or been told to present 'feminine'. they don't like femininity, and they don't like masculinity coming from a person who doesn't possess a d*ck.
this is just a (mostly) coherent essay on what I have come to think of misogyny and power which ssociates with it.
coming back to the question, why most women don't like bottoms/women being chasers? because a person who already is more at risk to be s.a.'d or exploited, wanting to chase a person of their predator kind, feels humiliating, and we want them to 'stand up' and know their worth. we want them to balance the power imbalances which is already there and gain a upper hand in the power dynamic. s*x, atleast in human society, historically and currently, has mostly been about power play.

oh yes ofcourse love, he is heavily mistaken about being a side piece. the MC is so deep in the closet he literally never interacted with anything remotely gay because he fears the consequences of being ‘out’, yet wants the love. ML on the other hand misunderstands MC and thinks he has a colorful past with many men, because MC kissed ML in military, and took his first kiss. he despises him yet is still obsessed with him, and wants to be the only one MC would want, since it was MC who came at him first, so he feels betrayed how now MC has so casually been sl*tting himself out(he is literally not though ) to other men. i haven't read the novel but apparently the misunderstanding drags till almost the end of the novel, it's basically the entire plot. i love me a good sl*t misunderstanding, and i love the art of sugar trap. so clean and pretty. it seems that author is a fan of "virgin x virgin" / "first and last" trope, which, freaking good for me. i have no problem with promiscuous main characters coming together, love me a freak4freak dynamic too, but there's something so lovely about a first love trope

I love virgin X virgin trope fr.

you are my friend without question

i guess i love the trope so much because i like the giddiness and confusion and rush of the first love. it's really cute. for some reason i can't bring myself to read a virgin x whore pairing because WHAT DO YOU MEAN my brain switches to anxiety mode, retroactive jealousy mode, and it leads to hate, it pmo so bad. the worst thing, i know it's wrong. maybe it stems from me hating power imbalances in a relationship, reason why i don't like age gaps as well. on the other hand, i like a slut4slut pairing with level 100 yearner levels (10 DANCE im looking at you) but I just can't wrap my head around virgin x (reformed)player trope. that's why never got the low tide in twilight hype. like wdym a player and also a r*pist? yeah NO. i have filed myself up over "protect your purity" because I just feel so sad i don't know....my retroactive jealousy kicks in for hyunjin. I had to stop reading that manhwa, it was paining me alot. the thing is, i can get around if for some reason the person balances if with other heinous act. like, in "the heart of the lotus"(black flag toxic manhwa btw) the top, s.a.'s the bottom, and that is so aggravating i don't feel sympathy for him, the "he's losing" feeling. although yes with time I do understand why he's doing the nasty stuff, he is not capable of healthy human emotions, that's why. but for some reason it makes my brain think "everything is balanced" even though he literally s.a'd him?!? and i know logically it is wrong, but my brain is literally f*cked up like that. maybe I take it personally and fear the 'competition' that's why, idk.
comparing it to genuinely nice lovesick yearner ukes who are just so fricking sweet and only loved one man forever, getting paired up with a man who was with someone else before, oh god it infuriates me. makes me feel, "oh what do YOU KNOW?!? you don't even deserve him".
happened with me in the manhwa "protect your purity" (as i said before, i literally had to quit, i could not go on, i felt personally attacked everytime they were together, when the top (forgot his name) said "you're so bad at kissing" yeah no shit, because he's not a wh*re like you bro stfu (-_-). and when hyunjin accepted his feelings and kissed him and he went "you're still bad at kissing" F*CK OFF i wanted to slap him. (T^T) you take sh** for granted huh? cheat on him hyunjin, f*ck his life up)
and in the story, "dreaming of the dokkaebi",felt bad for the top, imagine being trapped for so many years BECAUSE your lover trapped you, remaining chaste and bottling up your anger and love combined, only to get out of that realm and see your lover reincarnated and wh*red around with other men, he strong af i would kms no kidding)
in "the secret to winning unrequited love" I felt bad for the bottom so fricking much i literally felt like crying. i had lump in my throat when i got to bottom (kang hyun's) pov. he LOVE the ML SO MUCH. he deserves so so so much love, i literally can't see MC(top) treating him bad yet still wanting him, sure buddy i get you're dealing with homophobia but please, don't f*ck my baby kang hyun's life. you have 0 idea what kang hyun is feeling. he loves you so much you can't even comprehend. you are not deserving of that love. accept that love with humility and grace. he literally went through pain and humiliation from you, gave you his first time, even while knowing you'll never love him, he has loved you selflessly. and you hate him? you hate kang hyun? shame. on. you. for my sanity i deluding myself into believing they're both virgin x virgin because that's what keeping me sanity. helps, because after sleeping with kang hyun, the MC(top) hasn't dated anyone for 7 years and fixated on him everyday, dreaming about him and all.

Those are a lot of profound thoughts, rooted in present day realities of the world. I appreciate you taking the time to explain that to me and a lot of it is thought provoking. And while I too like many people enjoy realism in stories.....while I'm searching for entertainment, I tend to not look for a lot of realism because honestly, reality isn't all that entertaining, it's even painful....it gets darker as I get to know more about the world so yeah .... Not much fun there for me. I have a few types...n while I'm open to exploring..i still tend to like only those types of stories mostly. I just want two characters who have flaws but are not irredeemable. They must care for one another n respect each other (not necessarily from day one). They must not be pos to people other than the two MCs too. I can't get past physical/emotional cheating or assault.... basically maliciousness even once. And i for the most part hate it when they are jumping between many partners, seme or uke. My fav is virgin X virgin of course. I love angst n conflicts heck even misunderstandings are entertaining BUT.....i like them due to EXTERNAL factors..... realistically...they occur because of internal problems as well but no..... i don't enjoy that too much in fiction. I want a meddling wanna be home wrecker or a zombie apocalypse or an evil family member/friend to try their best....and i wanna see them FAILING spectacularly. I love the "they'll fight to be together until the end". I like reciprocation even when it's not verbal but through gestures. Absolutely hate it when the feelings are lacking or decrease or when any of them are swayed by a third party. Both of them. Bottom line is : as long as they truly are willing to make efforts and their feelings are genuine..so are their actions... it's my kinda trope.