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I don't get what the author wants to say at all. Yes, aeroc deserved death sentence for being directly related to rapiel's rape and murder. But the extent of abuse he was subjected to was way too disproportionate...also, who is kloff to decide his punishment? He is not the law...even the law will not hand out such a punishment.... Not that aeroc will ever get absolved of his crime whether he had the intent to kill or not is debatable though. So he simply should have beat him up once or twice and then killed him. Rape is not a viable punishment in my book atleast...even to the vilest creature...i wouldn't say they deserve to be raped. And let's say aeroc is paying for his crime but what about kloff ? Who will make him pay for his? His crimes are arguably a hundred times worse than aeroc's imo.
I also hate the framing of his logic by the author. Exhibit A: he points out to aeroc that his son resembles his mate...and that we all can interpret...he won't call aeroc his mate right? He was referring to rapiel....coz he wanted to "tear off aeroc's calm face mask". But then in his pov...he says he only pointed out that aeroc gave birth to his son ? Really? He said he wanted to taunt aeroc but how would that count as a taunt..when aeroc would be happy to be acknowledged as his mate ? BS. Just BS.
And if he was ok pointing it out...and the way he kept goading aeroc about how he was heartless coz he didn't cry when his children were taken away...then why did he abde and torture him again after little rapiel accidentally walked up to aeroc that day.... He even threatened to burn him alive...
Exhibit B: kloff also somehow makes everything all about himself...he literally sent aeroc out in the streets to be gangraped and he could that could lead to death too...but doesn't forget to throw himself a pity party saying " I can imagine what happened to you but it's not like you lost anything other than your confidence (bro he literally got raped and had multiple pregnancy losses..but yeah that's no big deal right???) while I shed tears of pain everyday buhoooooo. Fuck this bitch. Wtf is wrong with the author.....and well the author is showing him to be mad in hatred...but where is the resolution? Where is the retribution? Nowhere. Even when aeroc suffered the same fate as rapiel(which i agree was karma in a way and I'd say he deserved it ...had it not been for the extremely prolonged abuse and torture he suffered prior to that)....kloff still managed to make it all about himself..."waah why is someone carrying my child getting raped and killed again??? Why me ??". I'm disgusted...
Exhibit C: kloff is quite the practical man so he chose rapiel and projected on aeroc calling him a swine in heat when he himself had been staring at aeroc's ass before...but then when he saw aeroc's sad face watching him and rapiel...he smirked ? No matter what you say i feel like even before he married rapiel he didn't ever love aeroc, he was just attracted to him physically....coz how would you behave this way towards someone you cared about just a few weeks/months ago...? And after that we'll obviously he only tortured him..beat him so badly his whole body ached..he almost had a miscarriage due to the after effects and basically treated him as a birthing machine. He saw rapiel in him even though the author initially framed it as if kloff chose rapiel coz he's the socially acceptable omega version of aeroc...then in one scene he was staring at a long haired aeroc smiling..then when aeroc turned his face away.. kloff exclaimed "you're the one who's intolerable"..as if offended by aeroc's action..but?? He was the one looking through him ? Who does he even love .. such crucial details are just left to imagination..even the novel doesn't talk enough about kloff's piv and his feelings for aeroc in detail..except for chapter 9 and 21 here where i find his feelings for aeroc very superficial..aeroc seemed much more invested ... therefore I did not get why kloff got so obsessed with him and made him bear his children rather than just beating him up and killing him finally? What even is the character of this man kloff ? Dd he love rapiel and what we're his five years away like ? Did he think about aeroc as much as aeroc did? Coz it seemed as if he met him ..then decided he's out of league...then he began taunting him and showing rapiel off to him..there was never a single tender moment from his side or even longing so in my mind....he wanted to sleep with him but couldn't so he insulted him again and again...he never loved him.
And you're telling me this scum never even had anyone curse him out even once and for to live again with a brand new aeroc ? Are you fucking kidding me? It boils my blood seriously.
There's something called proportionality...and while I don't expect kloff or anyone who lost their spouse (by the hands of someone they felt attracted to in the past) to be able to keep proportionality in mind while they take revenge.....this was like 1:100...it was horrendous, monstrous and not deserved imo.
This was wayyyy too long, but thanks if you read till the end.
you're in favour of death penalty?
I got a notification telling me this topic has a reply but I can't see it ?
Im conflicted on some of these points, but overall this was basically how I felt reading this through, but multiply the rage by like 2000
The topic of death penalty itself is complex . , however, Yes, for crimes like rape. Yes. But why ask me that? You're not ? Anyway aeroc didn't rape anyone....he indirectly did but yeah... anyway if someone did that to my spouse I'd kill them too... that's what I'm definitely in favour of... I did not say death penalty btw....i meant being killed at the hands of the victims family, there's a difference between the two being acceptable. Hope that helps.
Do tell me which points? Maybe regarding killing aeroc ?
so you're in favour of vigilantism, even if it's murder, instead of death penalty? o.o ...okaaaay....
Not about Aeroc dying because I suppose that isnt too far-fetched of a karmic ending, but moreso about how you said he "suffered the same fate as Rapiel" and how that fate was deserved. Though, it could just be me mis-interpreting your intent and wording, because the way I read it I assumed you meant Aeroc dying brutally, after an extreme(sexual) assault(which I personally do not believe to be something that he would have deserved ever), but if you meant him dying sad and alone, I do understand that viewpoint I just don't really support any of that punishment being carried out by Kloff--because, as you stated, Kloff's revenge was not stemmed from his love for Rapiel (despite how hard he tries to convince himself of that), it was instead moreso stemmed from that fact that he had something "taken" from him, by someone whom he had very mixed, twisted desires for. And in the end he allowed his internalized rage at his desire for Aeroc, along with his devastation at his loss (not the loss of Rapiel but at the fact that he lost something) and handled those selfish emotions in the most sickening way possible.
What ?? So it's vigilantism. Yes I am 100% in favour. Kill those who kill your innocent loved ones. And kill the rapists and child molesters too while you're at it. Okay ?
Now that you made me think about it... death penalty for rapists and child molesters sounds absolutely fitting and proper too.
Yes like i mentioned before rape is never a viable punishment in my book. Even for the most vile person. He also didn't intend for rapiel to get raped.. however they were ultimately his choices that lead to this and being and adult there's no way he couldn't have foreseen that such a terrible scenario was a very real n possible outcome of his actions...So, It looked like karma to me. But yes, nobody could ever deserve rape. Sad n lonely yes he would have deserved to die like that as karma....but actually not anymore..coz he paid back so many folds more...much much more.
.
I also would like to know your reasoning as to why you think he didn't deserve any of that. Is it because you too think that rape isn't a punishment n nobody deserves rape...or because aeroc had already suffered so much...? Maybe both? Just curious.
Oh my God, you opened a can of worms, and now the other people are going to come at you. Honestly speaking, I have always, always, always said that if there are multiple timelines, the author should give us the POVs of the other characters as well.
For example, in the second timeline, the author should have given us Aeroc’s POV and shown what he was actually going through. Then, in the third timeline, it should have been from Kloff’s POV. In the recent chapter, he said that he fell in love with Aeroc at first sight. Okay, I can tell you right now, that is obsession. That is not love.
Like, come on. In the third timeline, Kloff had the perfect opportunity to go after Raphael and be with him, but he chose to come after Aeroc instead. He could have kept Aeroc on a leash from a completely professional point of view. He could have said, “I’ll be your financial advisor,” and used that position to stay close to Aeroc so that he could make sure Aeroc didn't harm Raphael.
Aeroc is naive. Yes, he is rich, but he is still naive, a typical sheltered person whose father died when he was very young, so he never really developed any street smarts. He just sees things based on what he assumes. Kloff can fool Aeroc again if he fooled him in first timeline manipulation his lack of financial understanding
Kloff had the perfect opportunity to get close to him through his financial advice. And in the second timeline, Aeroc literally pushed him to confess, yet Kloff is still the one pursuing Aeroc. So, in all three timelines, you can see that the obsession actually comes from Kloff, and of course, Aeroc is obsessed with him too in his own way.
And again, as I have already said in my previous comments, none of the readers are saying that what Aeroc did was justifiable. Whether his intention was simply to harass and scare Raphael, or whether he acted out of naivety, what he did was still Aeroc’s fault. That doesn't change the fact that Raphael was innocent, and later, Aeroc’s firstborn was also innocent.
The interesting part is that, in this third timeline, if you really read it carefully, we can see that Kloff is in love with Aeroc. In all the timelines, yes, he was physically attracted to him, but physical attraction should not automatically turn into love. To me, it was lust and an inferiority complex. I don't understand why the author decided to write it that way without really getting inside Kloff’s head or giving us the same depth from Aeroc’s side.
Even the author’s note I read seemed to favor Kloff over Aeroc. She even confessed that Kloff loved Aeroc, but she didn't use the word “obsession.” Instead, she described it as twisted love, anger, and insecurity. She also said that he abused Aeroc because Kloff wanted to punish himself for falling for the man who murdered his husband and child, or at least caused their deaths.
Again, there should have been a proper section where we could see both of their points of view and understand what they were experiencing, especially if they remember what happened in the previous timelines.
The shared trauma and neglect in this story are also baffling to me. Kloff has trauma, Aeroc has trauma, and yet their relationship keeps getting dragged through all of this without properly exploring how those experiences affect each of them.
And as I read Raphael and Liuns’s story, especially their side story in the second timeline, it honestly felt like Liuns’s relationship with Raphael was forced rather than something that developed naturally into genuine love. Raphael was pushed by his parents and manipulated by Liuns. That is just my opinion, though.
But ultimately, this is my whole take on the situation: when the punishment for a crime surpasses the crime itself, the punishment becomes a crime in its own right.
Aeroc’s actions are not justified, but that does not automatically make Kloff’s obsession, punishment, or behavior morally justified either.
Definitely. Imo a punishment can be more severe than the crime if you consider that the debt has to be paid with interest..but the situation here is just too imbalanced...the revenge is so severe that it has become a much bigger crime ....like not just surpassing it but a hundred times ! I too don't buy the love at first sight bs....like he way he kept acting out of spite after that ? No that's not love. Aeroc also make snarky remarks but it was clear that he did it out of jealousy and kloff knew that...still he kept rubbing his relationship at aeroc's face again and again....he was a big hypocrite.
Like I said...there was no need for the prolonged abuse... revenge could have been swifter. At last we had a demon at our hands. I can't believe the audacity kloff has inthe third timeline... saying so easily..how he'll start from the beginning with aeroc. The way the author is trying to convince the readers that this is in fact a tragic love story is not digestible to me. Why were all the emotional moments cut and swept pass....those chapters between 9 an 25..ish....there were many instances when kloff just came to beat him up and then rape him...he said vile things while e used his weakness body....he was so cruel...n then he has the gall to cry ? The person getting beaten into pulp isn't crying....aeroc isn't..he was just happy to be out of the slum where he must've brushed past death uncountable times... He had paid for it by that time...more than enough. I wanted to know what was going on in kloff's mind then.....when he took little rapiel away and abused aeroc for looking at the child...when kloff stared at aeroc for a long time ..was he really reminiscing about rapiel? Did he ever feel guilty ? Did he ever call a doctor for the battered aeroc ? Wonder how many organ failures e was suffering from. I hate that maid too..
I especially hate kloff for one other reason which is ...all the accusations of being heartless that he throws at aeroc coz the man cannot cry....it's because of kloff himself...he was the one who took the children away, he was one who threw aeroc to the wolves, he was the one who gave him a small sized shirt (rapiel's)....and when aeroc reacts exactly how a nobleman who grew up with rules will....kloff curses him out. He just wanted aeroc to wail like a coward and beg for his help and forgiveness...but at that point, aeroc had realised the extent of his crimes and accepted that what he did was indeed unforgivable. This story is so heavy for the heart. I wish atleast in season 3, kloff will face retribution...but that's just the wishful me.
I honestly think she didn’t put that much thought into it while she was writing it. She probably never expected it to become this famous or that people would analyze every little detail. I feel like, while she was writing it, she was probably thinking, “I’m just writing the story. Who’s going to question it this deeply?”
I think fanfiction author did better job not to be rude
Yeah, I think probably both, mostly because I think Aeroc did end up paying for his crimes tenfold in his first life, and even after all that suffering he continued to repent with his guilt and self loathing in his second life, and I also don't think rape should ever be used as punishment or revenge---atleast I personally could never imagine using it, but maybe people who have been brutalized in such a horrific way would better understand the nuance behind that perspective.
Yeah, if I think about it, I can't really judge if a victim turn and rape their rapist back....since they're the one who were brutalized.
Does anyone know a historical josei manhwa in which when the ml n fl are children..the fl's father has ml imprisoned and abused coz he hates his fallen family etc. The ml resents fl n her family too (obv) but one day the fl helps him escape and sets the hut he's kept in to fire...the ml says she'll regret this coz he'll still take revenge from her father etc. fl still helps him escape. Years later ml is now someone important (i don't remember is he's a duke or a knight) and I think he kills the father (or maybe imprisons him I don't remember) and takes the fl away. Then he marries her or maybe just keeps her....and it's love-hatw going on. And i don't remember if it had explicit smut but the gaze of the manhwa is indeed not non smut.
So, people seem to love pining, yearning MLs....... Do they like yearning MCs too? I like both. But many a times I've noticed that they find it frustrating if the MC is the one chasing and getting snubbed even if it's in the first quarter. What about guys?
i honestly don’t care if it’s MC or ML, in bl, i want the seme to be the one chasing and yearning, in straight romance, i absolutely want the guy to be DOWN at his knees for his girl. always men yearning even if they’re the MCs
Hm that's kinda giving stereotypical gender roles. But that's fine if you're into that. Is there a reason why though? Just curious.
i like a yearner/obsessive MC but then the top should be princess/sweet enough. kind of like a dom yearner bottom(badass for everyone else, down bad for ML) and sub dense top(timid to everyone else but surprisingly horse in bed yet a crybaby/princess)
i love a good dynamic that makes you second guess heteronormative roles.
some examples:
–red string quests (yearner crybaby top, clueless whiny yet protective strong bottom)
–die in my arms( the bottom is CRAZY let me tell you T_T but oh i love his obsession. he is a bottom only for MC(top) and needs MC’s c*ck like oxygen i kid you not .but with anyone else he was nonchalant toxic top, but forever obsessed with MC. and only wants MC in a possessive way, even if he was sleeping with others. (MC was married to someone else at that time)those b*tches are kinky and freaky and vanilla?they never heard of it)
–kiss me if you can(the MC has a push/pull tug of war with ML. he is obv attracted to him, protects him, but at the same time does not want to be with ML because he thinks ML doesn't remember him. (ML and MC had a one night stand and lost their v-card(both of them) during ML's rut and MC got pregnant and had a child.) the MC is one of my favourite omegas of all time. so badass.
no not stereotypical gender roles, it’s like, i just want to see a man getting humiliated and yearn sm for a woman imo it would be giving stereotypical gender roles if the woman would b the one yearning but in this case it’s not.
i don’t really have a reason im just a misandrist and whenever i see femdom i LOVE it, im really into submissive men in fiction, like buff men especially, i love when semes are down bad for their lover and would do anything for them. one of my fav trope. basically i like roles are reversed, i like when bottoms are dominant, love when women take the lead and make top so submissive
have you read sugar trap ?
Die in my arms
Mad place
Ang and/hard boiled love
In my bed (?)
Assorted wildness
Boss bitch baby (except for the omegaverse side story where he fucks others as a top....which is different from die in my arms coz the omega fucks other alphas while still keeping hojin...and like he's goes crazy when hojin leaves so it's not like there's a mutual agreement...also he's kinda a sugar daddy to hojin but hojin isn't looking for benefits....he missed his college assignments.and couldn't graduate coz mc called him out etc...so hojin stays coz of love and mc loves him too but still doesn't treat him like a lover, he isn't considerate...fucking others...(Lol imagine if an alpha only topped for an omega and bottomed for others lol..... something like that)...and he tried to leave many times but finally did when the omega said he had to marry someone else (an omega too)...so yeah he's quite he red flag...but honestly i still liked the fact that he's crazy about hojin
And additionally I love the chaser bottoms /fls even if they're the non dominant types...like a timid man/woman who are surprisingly persistent and can take rejection and still be adamant? Not to the point to being either doormats or stalkers. But yeah somewhere healthily in the middle. The thing is....I feel the frustration n sadness of a character in one sided or unrequited love....and then not getting the reciprocation....but I read it anyway. I'll feel equally bad for a top or a bottom or whatever they are. It's not like a seme or ML is bound to be in love first just because he's the main character's love interest. That should be his only main characteristic. I like when they have layers too..like the mc. I think I like it more when it gives as if there are two main characters ( with mc having a slight more central position but not too skewed).
Oh by gender roles i meant the stereotype that men are supposed to take the initiative etc....and they have to do the "asking out"
Not the humiliation part....
And i seeeee. You're a misandrist. Well it's none of my business i g .
I was just reading it....how did you know
ITS SOOOO GOOD
ohhh LOL okay i get it, yeah it can see as a stereotype
it can be seen*
of fricking course!! the top is so beautiful, and pathetic, i kind of feel bad for him. darling has accepted that he is side piece, still wants to be with the bottom. i cannot wait for the time when they both find out that they lost their v card to each other yet were pretending to be all that pre booking front row seats for their "post-true confesion" f*ck session. i am waiting impatiently.
Damn.... I'm not there yet......but he's mistaken.about being a side piece right ?
i guess one of the reasons could be the inherent power dynamic and switching of the "roles". a receiver is considered more feminine, and has more of a "chastity" thing burdened to them, and more vulnerable. (how irl, virginity of a woman is put on pedestal, and how bottoms/effeminate men are hated more because of homophobia/misogyny). the one "getting fucked" is already a notch below the one "who fucks", in the 'vertical hierarchy' patriarchy creates. so in a sense, the 'top'/man being chaste, or the one who chases, or the one who yearns and is pathetic (a virtue otherwise tied to a 'feminine' stereotype ("crazy obsessive retroactive jealousy induced gf", "clingy girl" and their villain-ification as opposed to the supposed "cool girl" hyper-fixation of men) gives a sense of balance. in a rigged system created by misogyny, a relationship doesn't have true 50-50, and hence the one who is more vulnerable, or more exploited, giving even more looks like it's 60-40 even if they're technically 50-50 on paper. until and unless we ground the levels of s*x and consider it as an equal activity, ie. “making love” instead of "fucking/getting fucked", we will never get out of heteronormativity. it's a very patriarchal concept and condences an otherwise mutual pleasurable activity to giving and taking. and the one 'giving' bending over backwards for the one who 'takes' feels wrong somehow, as you'll never see it in any other give/take situation. but s*x isn't give/take. it shouldn't be. this mindset makes s*x exhausting and taxing mentally, on one party (giver) because it's only so much you can give, but the 'taker' can become greedy or lose interest and walk away, wanting to 'take' from someone else instead.
the extremity of this leads to commodification of one group, solidifying a vertical hierarchy which wasn't previously there. it puts men/tops on a higher step, because no matter how inferior they are they will always be takers, hence there will always be a giver who can be lured to give.
one of the reasons BL has straight female audience is because they can self insert themselves into a demographic which is 'above' them and watch how the story plays out when the atrocities faced by them is shown to be put on men. in a sado-masochistic fashion, they empathise with s.a. in bl's but still can't look away, and are fascinated. they feel bad for bottom, but also feel a satisfaction of a grotesque sense when they see them getting berated. alot of women might have suffered through s.a. or some form of exploitation, and feel the successful manifestation of revenge when it happens to one of a man. the nice guy 'bottom'(who is nice generally) suffers from the hands of playboy s*x offender top, and in some twisted subconscious mind, a woman goes, "see, it's not funny now when it happens to you, huh?" and they like seeing a nice guy suffer because the woman was also nice, wasn't 'bad' in her eyes, she was innocent and was still violated. so it feels eerily satisfactory (maybe) to see a 'nice guy's suffer for the sake of it, because 'boys will be boys' to boys as well.
however, this mentality is problematic and women do become self aware now and then, and some were self aware from day 1. on the other hand, green flag bl's satisfy another craving women fantasize about, 'to be equal' to men. men, even if bottoms, are still equals to men just from the mere virtue of being 'p*nis havers'. so, they possess the quality of a taker no matter how dormant it is. now that i think about it, the reason why yuri is not as popular as yaoi is because of its vagueness of government/taker dynamic. a female top is still a 'v*gina-haver' and by virtue will always possess a 'giver'/'getting f*cked' quality(for the lack of the better word). moreover, top/bottom dynamic in yuri is comparatively vague than that of yaoi. more so, because since ages, s*x has been about p.i.v. (with former definition of r*pe being if and only if p.i.v. happened(which imo is very purity culture based because only p.i.v. has the ability to having taken a v*trinity). a woman cannot take anyone's v*rginity because she's incapable of performing p.i.v., and that's why lesbian hate is more of a ignorant/'won't acknowledge you' kind, while gay hate is more of a shunned/'how can you willingly choose to be a giver's kind (hence why bottoms get more hate than tops in gay community, tops put themselves on 'top' of the hierarchy, pun not intended, there as well too)
ultimately, men love d*cks, men love what they can do with their d*cks, they are obsessed with it. patriarchy becomes euphemism of phallic worship more than it has been men/masculinity worship. if it were masculinity worship, tomboy women wouldn't be called dyke, or been told to present 'feminine'. they don't like femininity, and they don't like masculinity coming from a person who doesn't possess a d*ck.
this is just a (mostly) coherent essay on what I have come to think of misogyny and power which ssociates with it.
coming back to the question, why most women don't like bottoms/women being chasers? because a person who already is more at risk to be s.a.'d or exploited, wanting to chase a person of their predator kind, feels humiliating, and we want them to 'stand up' and know their worth. we want them to balance the power imbalances which is already there and gain a upper hand in the power dynamic. s*x, atleast in human society, historically and currently, has mostly been about power play.
oh yes ofcourse love, he is heavily mistaken about being a side piece. the MC is so deep in the closet he literally never interacted with anything remotely gay because he fears the consequences of being ‘out’, yet wants the love. ML on the other hand misunderstands MC and thinks he has a colorful past with many men, because MC kissed ML in military, and took his first kiss. he despises him yet is still obsessed with him, and wants to be the only one MC would want, since it was MC who came at him first, so he feels betrayed how now MC has so casually been sl*tting himself out(he is literally not though ) to other men. i haven't read the novel but apparently the misunderstanding drags till almost the end of the novel, it's basically the entire plot. i love me a good sl*t misunderstanding, and i love the art of sugar trap. so clean and pretty. it seems that author is a fan of "virgin x virgin" / "first and last" trope, which, freaking good for me. i have no problem with promiscuous main characters coming together, love me a freak4freak dynamic too, but there's something so lovely about a first love trope
I love virgin X virgin trope fr.
you are my friend without question
i guess i love the trope so much because i like the giddiness and confusion and rush of the first love. it's really cute. for some reason i can't bring myself to read a virgin x whore pairing because WHAT DO YOU MEAN my brain switches to anxiety mode, retroactive jealousy mode, and it leads to hate, it pmo so bad. the worst thing, i know it's wrong. maybe it stems from me hating power imbalances in a relationship, reason why i don't like age gaps as well. on the other hand, i like a slut4slut pairing with level 100 yearner levels (10 DANCE im looking at you) but I just can't wrap my head around virgin x (reformed)player trope. that's why never got the low tide in twilight hype. like wdym a player and also a r*pist? yeah NO. i have filed myself up over "protect your purity" because I just feel so sad i don't know....my retroactive jealousy kicks in for hyunjin. I had to stop reading that manhwa, it was paining me alot. the thing is, i can get around if for some reason the person balances if with other heinous act. like, in "the heart of the lotus"(black flag toxic manhwa btw) the top, s.a.'s the bottom, and that is so aggravating i don't feel sympathy for him, the "he's losing" feeling. although yes with time I do understand why he's doing the nasty stuff, he is not capable of healthy human emotions, that's why. but for some reason it makes my brain think "everything is balanced" even though he literally s.a'd him?!? and i know logically it is wrong, but my brain is literally f*cked up like that. maybe I take it personally and fear the 'competition' that's why, idk.
comparing it to genuinely nice lovesick yearner ukes who are just so fricking sweet and only loved one man forever, getting paired up with a man who was with someone else before, oh god it infuriates me. makes me feel, "oh what do YOU KNOW?!? you don't even deserve him".
happened with me in the manhwa "protect your purity" (as i said before, i literally had to quit, i could not go on, i felt personally attacked everytime they were together, when the top (forgot his name) said "you're so bad at kissing" yeah no shit, because he's not a wh*re like you bro stfu (-_-). and when hyunjin accepted his feelings and kissed him and he went "you're still bad at kissing" F*CK OFF i wanted to slap him. (T^T) you take sh** for granted huh? cheat on him hyunjin, f*ck his life up)
and in the story, "dreaming of the dokkaebi",felt bad for the top, imagine being trapped for so many years BECAUSE your lover trapped you, remaining chaste and bottling up your anger and love combined, only to get out of that realm and see your lover reincarnated and wh*red around with other men, he strong af i would kms no kidding)
in "the secret to winning unrequited love" I felt bad for the bottom so fricking much i literally felt like crying. i had lump in my throat when i got to bottom (kang hyun's) pov. he LOVE the ML SO MUCH. he deserves so so so much love, i literally can't see MC(top) treating him bad yet still wanting him, sure buddy i get you're dealing with homophobia but please, don't f*ck my baby kang hyun's life. you have 0 idea what kang hyun is feeling. he loves you so much you can't even comprehend. you are not deserving of that love. accept that love with humility and grace. he literally went through pain and humiliation from you, gave you his first time, even while knowing you'll never love him, he has loved you selflessly. and you hate him? you hate kang hyun? shame. on. you. for my sanity i deluding myself into believing they're both virgin x virgin because that's what keeping me sanity. helps, because after sleeping with kang hyun, the MC(top) hasn't dated anyone for 7 years and fixated on him everyday, dreaming about him and all.
Those are a lot of profound thoughts, rooted in present day realities of the world. I appreciate you taking the time to explain that to me and a lot of it is thought provoking. And while I too like many people enjoy realism in stories.....while I'm searching for entertainment, I tend to not look for a lot of realism because honestly, reality isn't all that entertaining, it's even painful....it gets darker as I get to know more about the world so yeah .... Not much fun there for me. I have a few types...n while I'm open to exploring..i still tend to like only those types of stories mostly. I just want two characters who have flaws but are not irredeemable. They must care for one another n respect each other (not necessarily from day one). They must not be pos to people other than the two MCs too. I can't get past physical/emotional cheating or assault.... basically maliciousness even once. And i for the most part hate it when they are jumping between many partners, seme or uke. My fav is virgin X virgin of course. I love angst n conflicts heck even misunderstandings are entertaining BUT.....i like them due to EXTERNAL factors..... realistically...they occur because of internal problems as well but no..... i don't enjoy that too much in fiction. I want a meddling wanna be home wrecker or a zombie apocalypse or an evil family member/friend to try their best....and i wanna see them FAILING spectacularly. I love the "they'll fight to be together until the end". I like reciprocation even when it's not verbal but through gestures. Absolutely hate it when the feelings are lacking or decrease or when any of them are swayed by a third party. Both of them. Bottom line is : as long as they truly are willing to make efforts and their feelings are genuine..so are their actions... it's my kinda trope.
The secret to winning unrequited love is indeed the best out of them ones you mentioned. And yeah in dreaming of the dokkaebi, i feel bad for the top too because he was going insane trapped there and no body really understands him....and mianchan blames him for seeing him as his past lover.....n he's cursed (the solution is sex of course...preten to be surprised
Biscuit
RIGHTTT??? i love how he just wants to please the bottom, that’s all he cares about
biscuit??
Ohh sorry that was a mistake....i was just reading "biscuit" don't know if I like it ... another virgin X slut pairing....lol. but it's a bottom like top.... he's an asset though...he was pretty rough with the bottom who's a virgin because the top is prejudiced against him....but the bottom is bending over backwards for him coz he likes him.
girl I don't read virgin x slut pairing. No hate to you or anyone who reads it. But I avoid it. Gives me pain. The Secret to winning unrequited love had me choke on my breath so NEVER. I don't know, if I find a character I like so much, because what's there not to like about Kang Hyun, and characters like him. (The Uke from "The Third Ending" and Baek Sohan from Love in Orbit, and you can say even the uke from "Backlight") They just make me feel things, they're so lovely. So boyfriend material. Also, the uske from "Love Plan". Reminds me, how I love "Love Plan". Good ones are always short. Anyway, I feel so sad for them, for no reason as well. They're just so lovely, they're my babies. My shayla~
So I avoid this pairing. Anyway, I don't know, thinking I might follow you, let's be friends or something, hope I'm not imposing haha.
Also, random, but going to put you on some comics I ca recall from top of my head that's were really good and if you haven't read please give it a try.
-"Naked sword and tree peony of the black" (will forever glaze this manga till the end, there's something so likable about it. Old men yaoi, virgin x virgin yearner top, buff bottom, ikemen bottom, yakuza uke x lawyer seme)
-"Love Plan" (PEAK. virgin x virgin classmates to reunion to lovers, the top is yearner and obsessed and autistic vibe. chaebol seme, with seperation anxiety. smut is so hot)
-"Off track crush", "Red string quest"(smut fest but cute stories. virgin x virgin. older uke younger seme)
-"Born to love you"(manga, reincarnated lovers, oh i swear I felt something when I read it first time. Virgin x Virgin.)
-"Murderous llewrllyn's candlelit dinner(shonen ai. virgin top x experienced bottom and probably the rare ones where i like virgin x experienced trope. Love the story. So much. Must read.)
-"Lost in the Clouds"(Shonen ai. Virgin x virgin. Past trauma toxic love to mutual understanding love. Oddly, made me realise that what happened to me was SA. COC SA. Had to sit with the feeling for a bit.)
- "Love in Orbit" (I love Baek Sohan (uke) he's the kind of beauty that grows on you. I found him so alluring. Sihwa is the prettiest top I have ever seen, and yes I have seen Seo-In from Backlight, Sihwa takes the cake still, because he's the best. He really came to like Baek Sohan. His monologue “I lived an empty life devoid of choice. Now this being is filling up all my emptiness. He's the only one I ever chose out of my free will. Bark Sohan, Baek Sohan, Baek Sohan. I like you. I like you so much Baek Sohan." Oh man chills. And Sohan saying, "I can't deny it. There's something about two friendless guys going at it." Melancholic smut always make me feel things. There's parental neglect trauma that both share. It's beautiful. I know I am glazing it so much.)
- Pizza delivery man and gold palace. (Beauty. Although S3 was angst and craze. S1 was peak.)
- Do you still like me? (Oh for some reason this was melancholia. Felt like I'm listening to NFR by lana visually. They're so sad, that's why they find each other, console each other. An age gap I was okay with. (30 y/o uke, 38 y/o seme). Alpha x Alpha. The seme is beautiful.)
-"Home Far Away"(Mandatory tragedy read)
-"Kotaete My Drifter" (ah why so sad? love, love love. but pain pain pain)
- The Secretive XX (Alpha x Omega yearner top. Virgin x Virgin. Im a freak about this. I love Uke. He's so handsome. Buff bottom truther forever)
Sorry for imposing so many comics on you. But you can try them if you like. Maybe you've read some of them. Xoxo.
Yeah girl... i don't especially dig it too but I read anyways.... sometimes I hate read cheating stories....and writhe in pain watching the comments defend cheaters coz of xyz.... Why am I like this lol. Anyway thanks a BUNCH FOR THE AMAZING VxV list gurlllll.
And since you said you don't read slut x virgin so I'm guessing you wouldn't have read "hit me hard"....? Good decision though...coz while the younger virgin top is all like...I love hyung...hyung only cares about his dick and "freshness" the most so yeah......
Oh that one had summary that made me sad. I purposely avoid things. I like a good slut4slut though. And some toxic yaoi also. Die in my arms, and Yuwon everlasting are my current toxic yaoi currently. Yuwon everlasting is also virgin x virgin but it's so creepy I love it.
Another peak toxic yaoi is Bad Apple. I know it had SA but I liked top I know I questioned my morals as well. He is so crazy you can't help but enjoy it. Also, he clocks the MC's tea all the time and shows him his place when he gets overconfident and too cocky. I enjoy a bickering cat and mouse chase real enemies to lovers. You know by the end of it they'll be obsessed with each other. I was hyped reading it. That one scene where the seme f*cked him. (Yes SA), but the way he pulled uke's condoms out of his pocket and did a "clack!clack!clack!" And popped the 3 of those condoms packet in front of his eyes, as he had him bent over. And he said "you see mr taylor, unlike you, i know exactly where I sow my seeds" oof hottie black flag. You sassy with that?
I know it was so morally wrong of me to enjoy that scene I'm self aware. But god was it so hot. Also, the uke is a strict top, and bi. But he got assigned bottom when he picked fight with prettyboy enzo stefano(mafia nepobaby seme). It's a slut4slut freak4freak. Altho I'll say uke was more of a slut. But seme took his anal virginity. He f*cks him and uke is frowning, unable to relax and he goes "never knew handling a virgin would be this hard" (smth like that) ooohh you know uke got roasted. (Since uke is literal fuckboi body count in 100s and a good f*cker literally. But top only.) Buff bottom x Pretty top pairing. toxic yaoi. but oddly fun to read for me.
girl it is so difficult why are gay men so promiscuous? im crying pls stop having s*x.
that meme always,
"me when i'm in doctor's clinic with my mom and doc asks sexual history- sex is disgusting tbh just waiting for the govt to ban it"
as a person on ace spectrum, ykw heck yeah
Loooollllll. Heck yeah !!! I support #LearnToKeepItInYourPants #MakeYourBrainAscendFromYourDickAss lol.
Yeah....I see that our tastes match pretty well . Good thing I posted this question!
Vibe matched so hard bro!! Were you on THAT SITE as well? If yes what was your username maybe I came across your comment there as well? I would remember the name of you were a frequent commenter like GlennMcQueenSimp or Yamapookie or I_like_my_tops_virgin, and such. Oh god I'm blabbering. i can't take the name but you know which one site I'm talking about. I mourn that domain forever. The comments oh god I miss. Please I need a comeback.
Nah girl I was just some userrin23535... something like that... don't even remember. Yeah all the comments are gone .... I had FEW people agree with me....like you too...but still those were some good convos. Truly sad
Oh I don't remember usernames like U 2445 or something like that sorry. I was by the same name MrRover. I made account hastily so put exo kai's song as my name haha. Miss that site so much it pains me. Comments were peak there. Still I'm glad your and my opinions match. I loved going to account profiles and reading their bios, and "this user is lazy and hasn't updated their bio" haha. Oh the funny things. Im talking like it's been years but it feels like it haha.
Yeah mangago is our last fortress now. Lol.
I don't understand why mc ran away from the yoon house in his first life and ended up at evil uncle's place? He wanted freedom ? Didn't he wants to stay with kiheon ?