Struggling to like this

When he said Xinlu was his first love, that was already mixed with the feelings he had for the adult Xinlu. When he admired young Xinlu’s beauty, it was purely because of Xinlu’s beauty. There were no bad thoughts or ulterior motives behind it. Read carefully—we’re reading this story from Yuri’s POV, and he’s simply not that kind of character

Yeah I know, like I said. It's just kind of an icky feeling throughout reading it, I can't help it.

im ngl yuri is just a little autistic about that

in no way does he mean romantic love or sexual attraction. its like his love for water, when he calls it first love he essentially means an admiration for xinlu

ANYONE trying to call Yuri a pedo is stirring the pot and hasn't read the novel

Lmao right but I do agree it's on the boundary, just funny that we aren't discussing how Xinlu essentially raped Yuri (Drunk Sex is legally non consensual and rightfully so) then people draw the line at Yuri "loving" young Xinlu when it's the kind of love is similar to his love for water.

i have a feeling it's just to cause drama because raga is so much more tame than passion so people are just trying to find a problem. but to try paint YURI GABLE as an issue won't work he's the sanest thing the passion series has ever offered.

also the drunk sex is weird because from yuri's POV (in the novel and manhwa) its dubcon, but from readers perspective it definitely comes across as assault.

but i agree! i can't believe most comments are causing a fuss over yuri being a little autistic about the semantics of "first love" of all things

I think I'm kind of also biased with my own personal views, honestly. Because Yuri is the sanest one, I think that somehow make me easier to imagine from his POV, kind of logic? I mean for Ilay, he is basically a monster and I hate him in the first (and also first half of the second) novel, but because of that, I don't feel icky, you know? Cuz I just see him as a monster and I don't try to empathize with the character. But with Yuri (and I agree that he is still the sanest and safest chara, okay?), he is normal. So whenever I try to put myself in his shoes, I just always feel so icky imagining myself falling for someone that for a few years before, I have seen as a kid when he was 12 year old, while I was 25.

But I still do agree he is still the safest chara. I'm just talking about a personal ick. I wouldn't say he's a pdf or anything too, it's just kind of weird being with someone when you've met them as a kid.

I mean honestly the term "first love" has always been seen in an romantic view but it could mean just something you like. For example my true love was art like I love it more then anyone and gable's was xinlu but he just liked his beauty and never really had sexual thoughts i think it's also the translation kinda making it iffy but it's not bad. As i say this I still never liked the first love thing but its not as bad as some other shit I saw and I'm glad its more of a platonic first love then a romantic one.

What happens with ilay in the second novel. Because i did not see the appeal in the first one, i heard he gets better in the second and that the power dynamic between him and tai changes, that he stops doing anything that would hurt tai, but i don't know if that is true. I did not read the second novel.

He's still a bit of a psychopath in the end of the second novel, but definitely never towards Taeui anymore. They even dedicated the whole third novel (if I'm not wrong) for Ilay's redemption and reflective arc, about his temperaments, his job as basically a mercenary, and whether they can harm Taeui (he's starting to reflect a lot since the event in the end of second book, where - SPOILER ALERT - he almost killed Tay by accident). And then there's the fourth and final book, so yeah, Ilay had a lot of chance to fix his actions.

The power dynamic definitely changed. I was literally baffled by how much he changed at the end. I still can't say he's a green chara because, well, he's still Ilay, but he's never physically forceful to Tay anymore. He's simping hard, and even announcing it to every other people.






BUT ISTG RICHARD IS BAD INFLUENCE FOR HIM (IYKYK). BEWARE.
I f in hate him.

I see. Well there is still a long way to go then. But it would be good if they can develop his character, a psychopath can not fall in love as far as i know, so the development fo his character should take a different route. I guess i will have to wwait and see how things unfold in the other novels.

Who is richard?

SPOILER ALERT





I don't mean clinically psychopathic. Just figuratively.

And you'll meet Richard later in the second novel, he's an ML from another couple in PASSION. He's far much worse than Ilay, and for me and a lot of readers, he's just can't be redempted. It's not just by being a huge red flag, but it's the whole situation in his own story that shaped his whole chara as a big, big jerk. I f in hate him. Literally in my whole BL career, there's no other ML that I hate more than him.

I see. Well there is also black flag which is worse than red flag. ilay so far is pretty terrible, i will wait and see if he can be redempted, i am curious as to how hey will do that. But fuck richard if you say he is even worse lol.

I was doing some reasearch and i wanted to ask you.

The order of the novels after passion is Diaphonic Symphonia and Suite Side of passion, that's it right?

also 2 questions what chapter of second novel ilay almost got tai killed?

And how is that the dynamic changed? Because sometimes there are stories that vsay oh no the top changed, but they still do listen to the bottom when bottom says no and are still forceful.

honestly there are just too much of the chapter that I forgot. but I can tell you that DiaSym is like, the last time he’ll “look” like a jerk, cuz for the rest of them, he’ll always like, Taeui that Taeui this, like his world just became Tay. especially after the third one, where he reflected a lot, it’s like he became more secure of their relationship and chill out?

oh but now that I think of it, he’s still kinda forceful, just not physically. like later on, he’ll kinda get more creative to “persuade” Tay to do things. like if I’m not wrong, there are some Christmas side stories in the last book, where basically one of his crazy friends (you know, from that disbanded T&R Squad?) gave Tay aphrodisiac in a challenge and Ilay let that happened even knowing his plans, so he can see Tay begging to do “things”. so still forceful, but different kind of.

I see. I was reading some of the suite passion chapters. And when tay goes to korea, he is like i am going to handle bussiness but i am not running away. As if he was still scared of ilay hurting him if he thinks he will run away. But then later ilay says tay is with him by his own will. That is the key detail, because if tay stayed as a result of him fearing about his life, then it would not be a choice made with freedom, and then their story could never be considered a real relationship built on love and respect, and it would throw away the redemption ilay is supposed to have. It's complicated the way a lot of these authors handle the dark romance thing. Because in order for a story to be a dark romance, the power dynamic needs to change and develop into a relationship where both characters have their own agency and respect each other's feelings and choices.

yeah for sure. that’s why like for this Raga case, even though I’m kind of icky for the whole dynamic, I still read it, cuz when you read these kind of stories, you definitely need to attach some “disclaimer” kind of mentality to it. like it’s nuanced. it’s either that or none at all. and honestly, people have different kind of tolerances too.

for the Suite Passion, I would say Tay’s stance towards Ilay is similar to how he is in the latest chapters of the comic, where he is still scared of being chased down, that will always be true, but he also know that he wants to be with Ilay (like the recent chapters).

but also, again, another difference between their current dynamic and the novels is how later, what Ilay would actually do Tay if he runs away would also be different, for sure. he’s more sweet, chill, and trusting that’s for sure. I would say that that’s probably why Tay’s going to be genuinely like him later on (spoiler alert, Tay’s confession is in DiaSym).

omg my sentences are all over the place, huh. sorry, it’s nighttime in my country and I’m so sleepy

I like to make sense of a story based on the genre. I do not mind a dark story, a thriller. They can be interesting too. But when a story is called a dark romance, i am well aware that certain key components need to be there to be a dark romance. Otherwise we would be calling all stories involving rape and abuse where the victim stays with the abuser a dark romance, and we all know that is not true. You know what i mean? like authors need to be honest with what they promote. If somebody stays because they have no option or they are mentally broken, it is not a dark romance. There is nothing wrong with having a dark story. But let's call it like it is. One thing is a thriller, a story of abuse or psychological struggle etc. And a dark romance is a completely different thing. A story can start like a psychological thirller and evolve into a dark romance later, but it can not be both at the same time because the dynamics in those genres are different.

yeah I guess…I mean genre a lot of times can’t be rigidly defined sometimes tho, I don’t think that’s how genres in the reality is. ideally speaking, categorizing genres should help us knowing what kind of thing we are reading, right? but a lot of times, it’s just impossible to categorize them perfectly. in the end, you just have to know what you tolerate or not, and whether your reasons are subjective preferences or objective morals issues in those cases, and make decisions based on that. plus, different people sometimes categorize genres in different ways. idk but I think defining genres perfectly is kind of impossible atp.

and I don’t know if you’re still talking about Passion or now you’re shifting to a more general discussion on genres, but for the Passion novels itself is kind of treading the line, honestly. it’s definitely more noncon than dark romance, but not the worse in it’s category to call it thriller? cuz I know there’s other manhwas that until the end, if the MC actually got a chance to be free then they def would run away, but that’s not how it is with Tay. because even though yes, Ilay casually would make threats if he ever runs away, but also yes, Tay genuinely wants to be with Ilay. like when in the Suite Passion, he’s the one who keeps assuring Ilay that it’s alright for them to keep being together, and he will share Ilay’s burdens (remember that this novel is Ilay’s reflection arc. there were a period of time where Ilay keeps avoiding Tay, thinking that being with him will harm Tay).

like, in the end, you gonna come back to being comparative with all the other works in the same theme that you’ve read. cuz it’s affecting your tolerance, and your perception of the genre itself.

i would have to finish reading everything between ilay and tay to be sure if it is a dark romance story or just dark. Their relationship in passion i do not think there is love involved at all. If this changes later i would have to finish the rest to be sure if their story truly evolves into a love story, and not just a typical i stay here because i do not want to die. I have read dark stories and i can appreciate a dark story when well writen. A story can be dark, even have a sad/bad ending and still be good. Nothing wrong wih that. My point is they should not label everything as a dark romance when they are not. I can understand that people have different opinions about what is love and about romance. But even for the standards of fiction. If a ''couple'' is together because one of the people involved has no option but to stay, is mentally broken, has nothing to go back to, is being coerced, will be hurt or killed if they try to leave etc. That is not a romantic situation by any means. A plot like that can be told and it can be insteresting in a well writen story, but let's not call it a love story or a dark love story because clearly love is not involved in that equation.