I'm tired of the mischaracterization that stem from nothing but bitterness.
“Tjian is a nothingburger endgame.” “Slop endgame.” like plss both endgame would have made sense because Ian actions would have contextualize them. Tjian being endgame come off as bittersweet because they were two orphan who was a product of their environment and yes there was toxicity but the hate for them is literally just mischaracterization of their relationship and a selective moral values in reading literature. While Joian endgame could give the readers more clean moral/ a cleaner resolution to the ending because a Joian ending could have represented Ian choosing a different life but it could also be lukewarm. So it's like?
First of all, Ian is an avoidant character, and his relationship with TJ shows how he can be both selfish and selfless at the same time.
He is selfish because he knows their relationship and circumstances are toxic, yet he still loves TJ and even enjoys the obsession and devotion TJ has toward him. He also views himself as selfish because part of his desire to leave the gang organization isn't only about his deteriorating mental health. He doesn't want to eventually watch TJ build a family and have to live with the pain and insecurity that would come with it. He knows leaving would hurt, but he convinces himself that leaving might ultimately be better for both of them.
At the same time, Ian is selfless. He sacrificed his own mental health for years by staying beside TJ and accompanying him through the gang organization. Even though TJ seeing other women made Ian jealous and insecure, Ian understood why he did it. They were living within a homophobic environment where their relationship couldn't simply exist openly, and Ian understood the circumstances they were trapped in. His boss didn't even want Ian in the organization; he specifically wanted TJ. Yet Ian continued to stay.
Ian also sees himself as someone who drags down the people he loves, or anyone who loves him. He believes that his presence can ultimately hurt the people around him. And because Ian is avoidant, he doesn't confront TJ directly about their relationship or TJ's obsession. Instead, he avoids confrontation, which in turn enables TJ's behavior even though Ian understands that they should be like this.
TJ's characterization is just as important.
TJ had a crush on Ian from the moment he first saw him on the staircase. Even when they were younger, we see how much Ian's attention meant to him. When Ian approached him, TJ was happy simply because he was getting attention from the person he already liked. And throughout Ian's darkest periods, TJ was also the person who remained by his side. He was the one who stayed with Ian through his drug addiction and ultimately got him into rehabilitation. He has been with Ian through the worst periods of his life.
As they grew older and became involved with Jason, David, and the others, TJ witnessed David exploiting, sexually assaulting, and abusing Ian. Seeing someone with that much power hurt someone he loved became a turning point for TJ. He made the decision to gain power himself so that he could protect Ian.
A lot of what TJ did afterward was ultimately for Ian. Joining the organization, climbing the ranks, making money, and building power were all connected to his desire to protect Ian and give him security.
Even the incident involving Ian's leg is more complicated than simply “TJ wanted to hurt Ian.” TJ intended for Ian to be delayed, not physically harmed. The people involved went further than he intended, and Ian ultimately fell from a building. But TJ still confessed because he understood that regardless of what he intended, his actions had resulted in Ian being hurt.
TJ also became conscious of the fact that he was using Ian's guilt and sense of responsibility to keep him close. Because of that, TJ believed Ian might not truly love him freely. He thought Ian might only stay because he felt guilty or responsible for him. Over time, TJ also tied his own sense of worth to what he could provide Ian. He came to believe that his power, money, and ability to protect Ian were the things that gave him value in Ian's eyes, and that this was perhaps the only reason Ian could love him. His identity became increasingly wrapped up in what he had built and what he could offer Ian.
That doesn't make TJ non-toxic. He absolutely is. But his toxicity isn't rooted in some simple desire to maliciously hurt Ian. He genuinely loves Ian, but his love is shaped by his own insecurities, his upbringing, and the environment he was raised in. Jason groomed him into taking over the organization, and over time TJ became so invested in what he built that the organization and his power became part of his identity and his sense of worth.
And TJ does develop!
We literally see him become capable of letting Ian go because he wants Ian to be happy and safe. Ian happiness and safety was his priorities. Even when he finds Ian after Ian kills someone for Jo's sake, his instinct is to bring Ian back because he wants to protect him. TJ has the power to do that through the organization, but his actions are still rooted in his belief that Ian needs to be safe.
That's why their eventual confrontation matters so much.
For the first time, they actually confront each other and both lay out the insecurities that have shaped their relationship for years. Ian confronts TJ, and TJ has to confront the reality of what his actions have done to Ian.
After the big Teddy conversation, Ian calls Jo to meet up. I'm a big believer that Ian was going to break up with Jo and leave with or without TJ. He already knew from Big Teddy that TJ had offered something simply to keep him safe. Ian was going to break up with Jo and follow his original plan of leaving.
TJ, however, gave up the organization and went after Ian. He showed up and confessed to and he literally says that even if Ian doesn't feel the same way and so on (visit that chapter yourself).
Then Ian gets shot by Jamie, and TJ questions him about why he did what he did. Ian's answer matters because, as I've said, TJ is conscious of the fact that he has been monopolizing on Ian's guilt. That consciousness is part of what eventually allowed him to let Ian go, because TJ believed Ian's feelings were mostly rooted in guilt, even though Ian had made the decision to try to go back to the organization on the day of Jason funeral because he didn't want TJ to fight alone in that conflict. He was is once again showing the readers that he was always choosing TJ.
Chapter 98 is also important because Ian knew he had to meet Jo face to face to break up with him. Saying it over the phone wouldn't have been fair to Jo. His dialogue is essentially Ian acknowledging that what they had was real. He did love Jo, and he knows that he should want that relationship. If he could, he would have continued it.
But he can't, because he loves someone else.
So why do readers keep bringing up the Q&A when the Q&A itself reinforces that a lot of thing can exist at the same time? The truth was that Ian did love Jo, but it wasn't equivalent to what he felt for TJ.
You can say that Ian and TJ are codependent or trauma bonded or that it was familiarity but at the end of the day, that's part of the point of their relationship. It's flawed. Those factors don't erase or invalidate Ian's feelings or the affection and deep love he has for TJ.
As for Ian leaving without saying anything to TJ, I do think that's a writing flaw on Doyak's part. I'm pretty sure she did that to give Ian a moment of peace, especially considering the story begins with Ian only recently finishing paying his debt to the gang. That man did not have a break once in his life.
When Ian and TJ meet again, Ian answers TJ's confession and his question about why he took that bullet for him. His answer is simple“I love you.” He took that bullet because he loves him.
In chapter 98, Ian talks about accepting his wretched fate. But it isn't framed as TJ being his second choice. Ian made his decision because he loves TJ, and he is willing to accept whatever comes with that decision, even if that wretched fate ends up hurting them.
Now, for Jo and Ian's relationship.
No one is denying that Ian loved Jo. What you can't do is act dense about the fact that his feelings for Jo were not equivalent to what he felt for TJ.
Ian was drawn to Jo partly because of Jo's resemblance to a younger TJ. He became fond enough of Jo to indulge his whims, and Jo himself knew the context of Ian and TJ's relationship. He literally dreamed about Ian and TJ having sex. He asked Ian if there was someone he loved, and Ian said yes before changing it to “there was.” Jo knew there was someone else.
And despite everything Ian told him, Jo was the one who asked Ian to be friends.
Jo was also genuinely kind to Ian. He was innocent, had the loving family and relatives Ian never had, and represented a lot of what Ian desired. He was also the one who told Ian not to avoid conflict, and Ian eventually applied that advice to his relationship with TJ.
But what you don't get is that Ian and Jo's relationship was never fake, while Ian from the beginning could never truly come to love Jo in the same way because they lived through completely different worlds.
Ian's world was full of violence, while Jo grew up with a loving family and relatives. Just like other people has said Ian simply didn't have the privilege of imagining a long-term future with Jo. When he visited Jo's aunt, there was literally a panel of Ian looking at their family pictures without saying anything. When he was walking with Jo and noticed someone following them, he panicked and immediately went after the man.
Jo doesn't provide the peace that people seem to think he does.
In season 2, Ian watches Jo become increasingly self destructive. Jo doesn't listen to Ian and eventually goes to him on his knees, saying that he would sacrifice anything for Ian. Jo sees Ian as cruel for telling him to leave because, from Jo's perspective, Ian doesn't care about him. He wants Ian to love him, while Ian's initial unwillingness to let him get involved feels to Jo like Ian is once again pushing him away.
And even then, Ian sees TJ in him.
They were both self-destructing, and in that moment Ian questioned whether he should test his fate one more time. Ian crossing out the words that he would come back on that note was an aftermath of that self-destruction. The moment he reunited with TJ, he called himself the worst and was glad that he had crossed it out.
He was “the worst” because he was about to drag Jo into something based on an impulse.
And at the end, Ian recognized that. He didn't shy away from his flaws or from the fact that he had hurt Jo. He understood what he had done. He didn't allow Jo to dirty his hands or shoot Jamie. He made sure Jo could have a clean slate. He gave Jo closure about what they had and let him go.
Ian went from being an avoidant person who would run away from his feelings to someone who consciously chose to voice his insecurities, confront TJ, confront his own actions, and accept whatever came with his decision.
These are two orphans who went through hell, products of their environment, who were exploited by adults and never had a parental figure to help them navigate their emotions. They never stopped loving each other, and after all those years, they were finally able to receive another chance.
And you're telling me that's “slop” and a “nothingburger”?
Is it really not profoundly deep? Is it not bittersweet to see the nuance in their relationship and the fact that their decisions are morally gray? Is it really nothingburger that they're endgame?
I'm tired of the mischaracterization that stem from nothing but bitterness.
“Tjian is a nothingburger endgame.” “Slop endgame.” like plss both endgame would have made sense because Ian actions would have contextualize them. Tjian being endgame come off as bittersweet because they were two orphan who was a product of their environment and yes there was toxicity but the hate for them is literally just mischaracterization of their relationship and a selective moral values in reading literature. While Joian endgame could give the readers more clean moral/ a cleaner resolution to the ending because a Joian ending could have represented Ian choosing a different life but it could also be lukewarm. So it's like?
First of all, Ian is an avoidant character, and his relationship with TJ shows how he can be both selfish and selfless at the same time.
He is selfish because he knows their relationship and circumstances are toxic, yet he still loves TJ and even enjoys the obsession and devotion TJ has toward him. He also views himself as selfish because part of his desire to leave the gang organization isn't only about his deteriorating mental health. He doesn't want to eventually watch TJ build a family and have to live with the pain and insecurity that would come with it. He knows leaving would hurt, but he convinces himself that leaving might ultimately be better for both of them.
At the same time, Ian is selfless. He sacrificed his own mental health for years by staying beside TJ and accompanying him through the gang organization. Even though TJ seeing other women made Ian jealous and insecure, Ian understood why he did it. They were living within a homophobic environment where their relationship couldn't simply exist openly, and Ian understood the circumstances they were trapped in. His boss didn't even want Ian in the organization; he specifically wanted TJ. Yet Ian continued to stay.
Ian also sees himself as someone who drags down the people he loves, or anyone who loves him. He believes that his presence can ultimately hurt the people around him. And because Ian is avoidant, he doesn't confront TJ directly about their relationship or TJ's obsession. Instead, he avoids confrontation, which in turn enables TJ's behavior even though Ian understands that they should be like this.
TJ's characterization is just as important.
TJ had a crush on Ian from the moment he first saw him on the staircase. Even when they were younger, we see how much Ian's attention meant to him. When Ian approached him, TJ was happy simply because he was getting attention from the person he already liked. And throughout Ian's darkest periods, TJ was also the person who remained by his side. He was the one who stayed with Ian through his drug addiction and ultimately got him into rehabilitation. He has been with Ian through the worst periods of his life.
As they grew older and became involved with Jason, David, and the others, TJ witnessed David exploiting, sexually assaulting, and abusing Ian. Seeing someone with that much power hurt someone he loved became a turning point for TJ. He made the decision to gain power himself so that he could protect Ian.
A lot of what TJ did afterward was ultimately for Ian. Joining the organization, climbing the ranks, making money, and building power were all connected to his desire to protect Ian and give him security.
Even the incident involving Ian's leg is more complicated than simply “TJ wanted to hurt Ian.” TJ intended for Ian to be delayed, not physically harmed. The people involved went further than he intended, and Ian ultimately fell from a building. But TJ still confessed because he understood that regardless of what he intended, his actions had resulted in Ian being hurt.
TJ also became conscious of the fact that he was using Ian's guilt and sense of responsibility to keep him close. Because of that, TJ believed Ian might not truly love him freely. He thought Ian might only stay because he felt guilty or responsible for him. Over time, TJ also tied his own sense of worth to what he could provide Ian. He came to believe that his power, money, and ability to protect Ian were the things that gave him value in Ian's eyes, and that this was perhaps the only reason Ian could love him. His identity became increasingly wrapped up in what he had built and what he could offer Ian.
That doesn't make TJ non-toxic. He absolutely is. But his toxicity isn't rooted in some simple desire to maliciously hurt Ian. He genuinely loves Ian, but his love is shaped by his own insecurities, his upbringing, and the environment he was raised in. Jason groomed him into taking over the organization, and over time TJ became so invested in what he built that the organization and his power became part of his identity and his sense of worth.
And TJ does develop!
We literally see him become capable of letting Ian go because he wants Ian to be happy and safe. Ian happiness and safety was his priorities. Even when he finds Ian after Ian kills someone for Jo's sake, his instinct is to bring Ian back because he wants to protect him. TJ has the power to do that through the organization, but his actions are still rooted in his belief that Ian needs to be safe.
That's why their eventual confrontation matters so much.
For the first time, they actually confront each other and both lay out the insecurities that have shaped their relationship for years. Ian confronts TJ, and TJ has to confront the reality of what his actions have done to Ian.
After the big Teddy conversation, Ian calls Jo to meet up. I'm a big believer that Ian was going to break up with Jo and leave with or without TJ. He already knew from Big Teddy that TJ had offered something simply to keep him safe. Ian was going to break up with Jo and follow his original plan of leaving.
TJ, however, gave up the organization and went after Ian. He showed up and confessed to and he literally says that even if Ian doesn't feel the same way and so on (visit that chapter yourself).
Then Ian gets shot by Jamie, and TJ questions him about why he did what he did. Ian's answer matters because, as I've said, TJ is conscious of the fact that he has been monopolizing on Ian's guilt. That consciousness is part of what eventually allowed him to let Ian go, because TJ believed Ian's feelings were mostly rooted in guilt, even though Ian had made the decision to try to go back to the organization on the day of Jason funeral because he didn't want TJ to fight alone in that conflict. He was is once again showing the readers that he was always choosing TJ.
Chapter 98 is also important because Ian knew he had to meet Jo face to face to break up with him. Saying it over the phone wouldn't have been fair to Jo. His dialogue is essentially Ian acknowledging that what they had was real. He did love Jo, and he knows that he should want that relationship. If he could, he would have continued it.
But he can't, because he loves someone else.
So why do readers keep bringing up the Q&A when the Q&A itself reinforces that a lot of thing can exist at the same time? The truth was that Ian did love Jo, but it wasn't equivalent to what he felt for TJ.
You can say that Ian and TJ are codependent or trauma bonded or that it was familiarity but at the end of the day, that's part of the point of their relationship. It's flawed. Those factors don't erase or invalidate Ian's feelings or the affection and deep love he has for TJ.
As for Ian leaving without saying anything to TJ, I do think that's a writing flaw on Doyak's part. I'm pretty sure she did that to give Ian a moment of peace, especially considering the story begins with Ian only recently finishing paying his debt to the gang. That man did not have a break once in his life.
When Ian and TJ meet again, Ian answers TJ's confession and his question about why he took that bullet for him. His answer is simple“I love you.” He took that bullet because he loves him.
In chapter 98, Ian talks about accepting his wretched fate. But it isn't framed as TJ being his second choice. Ian made his decision because he loves TJ, and he is willing to accept whatever comes with that decision, even if that wretched fate ends up hurting them.
Now, for Jo and Ian's relationship.
No one is denying that Ian loved Jo. What you can't do is act dense about the fact that his feelings for Jo were not equivalent to what he felt for TJ.
Ian was drawn to Jo partly because of Jo's resemblance to a younger TJ. He became fond enough of Jo to indulge his whims, and Jo himself knew the context of Ian and TJ's relationship. He literally dreamed about Ian and TJ having sex. He asked Ian if there was someone he loved, and Ian said yes before changing it to “there was.” Jo knew there was someone else.
And despite everything Ian told him, Jo was the one who asked Ian to be friends.
Jo was also genuinely kind to Ian. He was innocent, had the loving family and relatives Ian never had, and represented a lot of what Ian desired. He was also the one who told Ian not to avoid conflict, and Ian eventually applied that advice to his relationship with TJ.
But what you don't get is that Ian and Jo's relationship was never fake, while Ian from the beginning could never truly come to love Jo in the same way because they lived through completely different worlds.
Ian's world was full of violence, while Jo grew up with a loving family and relatives. Just like other people has said Ian simply didn't have the privilege of imagining a long-term future with Jo. When he visited Jo's aunt, there was literally a panel of Ian looking at their family pictures without saying anything. When he was walking with Jo and noticed someone following them, he panicked and immediately went after the man.
Jo doesn't provide the peace that people seem to think he does.
In season 2, Ian watches Jo become increasingly self destructive. Jo doesn't listen to Ian and eventually goes to him on his knees, saying that he would sacrifice anything for Ian. Jo sees Ian as cruel for telling him to leave because, from Jo's perspective, Ian doesn't care about him. He wants Ian to love him, while Ian's initial unwillingness to let him get involved feels to Jo like Ian is once again pushing him away.
And even then, Ian sees TJ in him.
They were both self-destructing, and in that moment Ian questioned whether he should test his fate one more time. Ian crossing out the words that he would come back on that note was an aftermath of that self-destruction. The moment he reunited with TJ, he called himself the worst and was glad that he had crossed it out.
He was “the worst” because he was about to drag Jo into something based on an impulse.
And at the end, Ian recognized that. He didn't shy away from his flaws or from the fact that he had hurt Jo. He understood what he had done. He didn't allow Jo to dirty his hands or shoot Jamie. He made sure Jo could have a clean slate. He gave Jo closure about what they had and let him go.
Ian went from being an avoidant person who would run away from his feelings to someone who consciously chose to voice his insecurities, confront TJ, confront his own actions, and accept whatever came with his decision.
These are two orphans who went through hell, products of their environment, who were exploited by adults and never had a parental figure to help them navigate their emotions. They never stopped loving each other, and after all those years, they were finally able to receive another chance.
And you're telling me that's “slop” and a “nothingburger”?
Is it really not profoundly deep? Is it not bittersweet to see the nuance in their relationship and the fact that their decisions are morally gray? Is it really nothingburger that they're endgame?
Because the way I see it, that's just petty.