I think it's not really about hidden misogyny or anything. It's more about why does in a gay relationship must there be a husband and a wife role or something. Can't there be just two husbands? or "he's a bottom so he's the female in the relationship". when it should just, "he just likes or prefers taking it rather than giving it". It's also about how many people almost always assume that all gay men became gay because they wanted to become a female when in fact some are just men who loves men.
"Are you saying it's bad to be treated like a female?"
No, it's just that it's not what the person wanted. There are gay men who wanted to be treated like a female and there gay men who want to be treated like a male. It's just that Hosik is in the latter. It's that simple.
"Why is the term wife or mother is looked at negetively? Internalized misogyny anyone?"
Again because it's not about misogyny but because Hosik is still a man and wants to be treated like one. He didn't say that he wanted to be treated like a female just because he did a thing only females can do i.e. giving birth. If he was treated like a female just because he gave birth then isn't that some sort of sexism?
"If a women gets treated like a man or get's terms associated with males , no one will complain. No one will even raise an issue about it. but female terms are insulting or problematic."
I would just like to say that never say anything in absolutes. If that were indeed true then I would like you to provide me with at least three or five instances where the female character in a yaoi or yuri works has been associated with male terms or get treated like a man in a negative way.
"Unless you look down mothers and you are mysogynistic, I see no reason why this should be an issue."
You see you just can't make these statements as if they are the only true reason. Some people dislike Hosik being treated as a female not because they hate mothers or are just misogynistic. It's like when people say they don't like to date trans and they always immediately assume that it's because they are transphobic when in fact the reason could be that trans are just not their preference. Yet people still prefer it's because they hate trans.
That particular sentence of yours really irked me because I love my mother and she is one of the most important person in my life and one of my goals in life is to be successful enough to make her life as comfortable as possible until the day she dies.
bro go write your paragraph somewhere else lmaoo
essay*
^agree
^agree
Yes thank you for explaining properly I wish more people could see this because it’s really insightful. I love your explanation :)))
(づ￣ ³￣)づ Thanks.
Thank you too for spending your time reading it. ( ˘ ³˘)
Where do I even begin with your bullshit argument? The entire essay that you wrote drawing false equivalencies to justify the misogyny is giving me a headache. But let's try anyway.
"Can't there be just two husbands? or "he's a bottom so he's the female in the relationship". when it should just, "he just likes or prefers taking it rather than giving it". Again, what's wrong with being associated with female? Even if being a bottom is associated with the female role, why is it looked down upon? It's no secret that there is a substantial amount of misogyny in the gay community. Feminine gays are looked down upon because of their feminine traits or personalities. To find it insulting to be associated with females, what could be the reason if it's not misogyny? Nobody is calling Hosik a women, he might be a called a wife or mother, but no one called him a women. While those titles are associated with females, it doesn't mean they have to be strictly restricted to women. They all are aware he is a man. And they try to accommodate accordingly. You might wanna question yourself, why you are so adamant about the husband title. I don't care what Hosik get's called. He could be called a saltine cracker for all i care. But why get so butthurt about being called female terms? What's so bad about them?
"There are gay men who wanted to be treated like a female and there gay men who want to be treated like a male. It's just that Hosik is in the latter. It's that simple."
Hosik might have been uncomfortable with it in the beginning, but he has since then come to terms with it. He doesn't raise an issue anymore, so why are you lot? And his problem with it might have come from how patriarchal Korea is. He might have been misogynistic himself.
"He didn't say that he wanted to be treated like a female just because he did a thing only females can do i.e. giving birth. If he was treated like a female just because he gave birth then isn't that some sort of sexism" It is a bit sexist, but you forget that in their universe male pregnancy is relatively new. So the fact it is still being associated with female only trait is understandable. And this is Korea we are talking about, they are dealing with it the best that they can. The fact they were able to get married without hiding Hosik's sex is amazing i would say. Everyone knows Hosik is a man, and he is not even forced to act as a women aside from the wedding day. Seungbae and his parents keep him out of family traditions so that he won't be uncomfortable. They are trying, change doesn't happen overnight, it takes decades.
"I would like you to provide me with at least three or five instances where the female character in a yaoi or yuri works has been associated with male terms or get treated like a man in a negative way." What even is this? How does this make sense to you? First of all, I don't read yuri. Second, 'get treated like a man in a negative way', you just confirmed what i said in this line. That women associated with male traits are not looked down upon. Infact they are considered cool. Teenage girls acting like tomboys because they are not like other girls, this is not something that's considered negative. But get a boy to act like a girl and all hell breaks loose. What point were you even trying to make?
I won't even address that trans argument because it has nothing to with what i said. And what I said irked you because you are misogynistic. I don't care if you are a male or female, because both sexes can be misogynistic. And the fact that you just pulled your mom in your argument like ''I can't be racist because I have black friends' just made me cringe. If I wasn't sure about your misogyny before, inclusion of your mother solidified it. Even the most mysogynistic person is kind towards their mother if they had a normal upbringing. You loving your mother proves nothing.
*Sighs
The way you started your counter-argument/counter-essay or something clearly shows what type of person I'm dealing with and you're clearly the type who are vehement with their points and will flat-out reject anything that opposes it but I'll try my best to respond back anyway.
"Again, what's wrong with being associated with female? Even if being a bottom is associated with the female role, why is it looked down upon?"
Uhh, nothing? I didn't even say it was looked down upon. My point which you clearly missed is that there are gay bottom men who wants to be still be associated with being a male. Now assuming/forcing them to be associated with the female role just because they bottom is where we have the issue. Just because someone doesn't want to be associated with being a female it doesn't always exactly mean they are being misogynistic, it's just preferences. Something like this qoute "Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I hate you".
"Hosik might have been uncomfortable with it in the beginning, but he has since then come to terms with it. He doesn't raise an issue anymore, so why are you lot? And his problem with it might have come from how patriarchal Korea is."
If I'm not mistaken, Hosik's issue was more on the pregnancy part and not on the female association part.
"He might have been misogynistic himself."
How the heck did he even become misogynistic?
"What even is this? How does this make sense to you?"
That was an honest mistake on my part. I thought you were negatively talking about females acting manly roles when you meant the opposite. But I would like to make something clear about this part:
"That women associated with male traits are not looked down upon. Infact they are considered cool. Teenage girls acting like tomboys because they are not like other girls, this is not something that's considered negative. But get a boy to act like a girl and all hell breaks loose."
It's not misogyny my dear, it's toxic masculinity. Do you think women who have manly traits are considered cool just because they have manly traits? No, they are considered cool because they are WOMEN who have manly traits. Why do you ask males who have womanly traits are usually disliked? It's not because they have womanly traits but because they are MEN who have womanly traits.
"I won't even address that trans argument because it has nothing to with what i said."
I admit that that was kinda careless of me but the point I was trying to makes was, just because someone doesn't like/agree with something, it's not always because they hate it. The reason why I said that because the whole point of what you said was "They hate Hosik being treated or associated with a female traits so it must be misogyny".
"And what I said irked you because you are misogynistic. I don't care if you are a male or female, because both sexes can be misogynistic. And the fact that you just pulled your mom in your argument like ''I can't be racist because I have black friends' just made me cringe. If I wasn't sure about your misogyny before, inclusion of your mother solidified it. Even the most mysogynistic person is kind towards their mother if they had a normal upbringing. You loving your mother proves nothing."
Of course you're definitely right that I'm misogynistic. You, a completely random person from god who knows where who have only exchanged a few paragraphs with me can definitely and with absolute certainty conclude that I'm a misogynist. Guess I can't argue with that because saying that all of my siblings are female and that most of my friends are females can just be seen as an attempt of an "I have black friends so I'm not rascist" kind of thing, so kudos to you for exposing a misogynist. I guess I better start acting like a misogynist so I won't fail your expectations.
Sighs
The way you started your counter-argument/counter-essay or something clearly shows what type of person I'm dealing with and you're clearly the type who are vehement with their points and will flat-out reject anything that opposes it.
Right back at you. I am not interested in reading your drivel trying to justify your misogyny and how I have misunderstood you. Move along buddy.
Likewise.
lmaoo you literally just missed the point, nobody is getting misogynistic nor they are denying he is a mother, the problem is being treated as something you are not people not seeing you as you are, people just don't like the fact hosik is getting treated and labeled as a woman because he's a man, trans people deal with that similar thing daily so you writing this off as misogyny is kinda not cool bro. people aren't mad because of him being treated as a "woman" it's because they aren't treating him as a "man", also trans rights have a nice day
i think you’re forgetting one important thing here. these webtoons are aimed towards a female audience and probably written by a female too (most of them, at least). it’s not that being associated with a female as a man is a bad thing, it’s just that people assign the male and female roles to a gay couple as if to somehow make sense of it. rather than exploring a new dynamic, they pick the feminine looking guy to be the woman, the girlfriend, the bottom, the wife etc. and of course there will be the masculine counterpart who’s the dom boyfriend. it’s stereotypical.
LOL IKR
I wish there was an upvote option to your commentary
I mean like, the reason I wrote the paragraph in the first place is in here so why should I write it somewhere else? Like ???
people be sleepin on the truth sis ╮(￣▽￣)╭
Ya'll people are bunch of puritans that care more about fictional people than real people, that's the truth. Y'all just want to have pedestal above people with yall fake high morality. If you're worried about lgbt like don't bash the real ones. Most lgbt read this kind of stuff to explore things that actually happened to them because repression is worse. It's exploring dark themes with fictional characters without no one really getting hurt irl. But yeah, yall just come herr to bully people over what they read as if this niche comic had the same exposure as some Disney movie. People are smart enough to know what's good and bad stop treating us like idiots
Uhhuh, how? How did you even come with this part "Ya'll people are bunch of puritans that care more about fictional people than real people, that's the truth." Like what?
"If you're worried about lgbt like don't bash the real ones."
Who's bashing who now?
"But yeah, yall just come herr to bully people over what they read as if this niche comic had the same exposure as some Disney movie."
You're losing me bud.
"People are smart enough to know what's good and bad stop treating us like idiots "
Your words, not ours. No one's calling anyone an idiot here.
I see a lot of complaints of hosik being treated as a women, and my question is why is that a bad thing? Why is the term wife or mother is looked at negetively? Internalized misogyny anyone? If a women gets treated like a man or get's terms associated with males , no one will complain. No one will even raise an issue about it. but female terms are insulting or problematic. Why? This is an mpreg story. Hosik is indeed a mother. He gave birth. Unless you look down mothers and you are mysogynistic, I see no reason why this should be an issue.