TurtleThatAteABorgir's Questions (87)

Kiss the abyss!! Though, it's a shounen ai. Its still pretty good!

Read unlimited flow novelss

https://www.mangago.me/read-manga/anima_yell/
https://www.mangago.me/read-manga/lazy_skies/
https://www.mangago.me/read-manga/gabriel_dropout/
https://www.mangago.me/read-manga/there_s_a_ghost_behind_that_gyaru/
https://www.mangago.me/read-manga/chiisana_mori_no_ookami_chan/
https://www.mangago.me/read-manga/joshi_kausei/
https://www.mangago.me/read-manga/kirei_ni_shitemoraemasuka/
https://www.mangago.me/read-manga/yuko_sae_tatakaeba/
https://www.mangago.me/read-manga/little_little/
https://www.mangago.me/read-manga/yurucamp/
https://www.mangago.me/read-manga/gyaru_and_cthulhu/

Here’s a bunch of different recs dear! (≧∀≦) Be sure to click on the blue + to see everything, hope you find some new reads that you like!

Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou maybe

https://www.mangago.me/read-manga/k_on/

It's about a woman by herself and it kinda has romance so idk

TYY EVERYONE!!!! ヾ(☆▽☆)

https://www.mangago.me/read-manga/busted_darklord/

THANKYOU!! wow I didn't remember the MCs being kids this looks way too predatory to be a good story

sacred serpent's seduction

Thankyou!!

What about that feels homophobic ? It’s two dudes? The entire point of Omegaverse is to be able to carry a kid I mean I’m a fan of every trope but come on now let’s not forget why it even exists.

AxO relationships tend to be very heteronormative. AxB usually isn't. The thought process is that forcing a switch feels like forcing heteronormativity, which is what comes off as homophobic to the op.

Also, the reason why some people (myself included) read Omegaverse is more for the pheromones and heat/rut mechanics rather than the pregnancy. Not all AxO end in mpreg and not everyone wants mpreg ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Anyways I hope you have an epic day

Also for a recc, try https://www.mangago.me/read-manga/oblivious_mr_b/
It's short but very good :3

I second this recc

I mean AxO is going to be “heteronormative” to you if you view pregnancy as heteronormative or like everything else that comes with Omegaverse as heteronormative. I don’t really think it’s fair to group them all that way especially when the majority of them atleast the newer ones don’t try to force them into “heteronormative” roles but also once again they are both men and there’s no reason to criticize a part of a genre you didn’t really try to understand all that well. I also am aware people like Omegaverse because of heat cycles as well I am aware because I literally read very pairings and obviously they wouldn’t exist if people only read it for the pregnancies but I was just saying the entire point of Omegaverse IS 2 men having the ability to have children.
HAVE A GOOD DAY TOO ٩(๑❛ᴗ❛๑)۶

The entire point of Omegaverse is mpreg yes, but it's more of the societal build and the way character's are written yk? The Alpha x Omega trope rarely stays true to its "second gender", but rather forces the Omega into a personality that's quite heternormative (i.e. the bottom is the "girl" of the relationship) not to mention, that's quite literally how omega are treated in their story. Sure there are good stories out there, but majorly it feels like I'm reading a straight romance where the girl just happens to look like a boy, yk? Nothing wrong with that, love that trope, but not when I want to read a bl/mlm.

The homophobic part abt this however is when the story starts with an Alpha X Beta trope, but then the Beta turns to an Omega feels extremely homophobic and heternormative. Why? Because it kind of pushes the idea that if an Alpha dates a guy, it !must! be an omega, how else can they fall in love? How else are they gonna have kids? — these are also the same exact arguments people use against homosexual relationships.

Once again, nothing wrong with the concept, it can be executed well, however it more often than not has subtle homophobia mixed with it

Once again cuz I thought I wasn't clear enough, Omegaverse itself isn't entirely homophobic (tho it can be a discussion), the idea of a beta male turning into an omega male because his partner in the story happens to be an alpha is. And I absolutely hate that. It's like when you see a good BL/GL but turns out one of the ML/FL has been the opposite all along
Σ( ￣□￣||)
Anyway, have a good day!

TYSMM

https://www.mangago.me/read-manga/norainu_no_yoru/
https://www.mangago.me/read-manga/kimi_wa_beta_pcbs/

Np, also i got another one for ya (I just finished it)
https://www.mangago.me/read-manga/sensei_no_sensei/

I mean you can definitely hate that I’m just confused on how that was homophobia and not just your preference what it seems like is your preference and not homophobia and that was a terrible comparison because that would be “queer baiting” vs beta turning into an omega to fulfill the og purpose of Omegaverse . I get you though I like every omegaverse trope

Im not sure I think it’s very good to deeply think things but it gets to a point where if you go to deep into things you start connecting things that kinda end up making sense but at the same time it doesn’t I mean typically they use the alpha x beta to omega trope for them to use it as a plot point or to create an “accidental pregnancy” not to be “heteronormative” I also think that people want to see 2 men have kids biologically since irl it’s not possible lol. Idk if it was 2 of the men adopting a kid would you be saying the same thing? A heteronormative traditional type of relationship can’t have 2 fathers.

Okay I have a feeling you aren't really understanding what heteronormative is. I'm not talking about straight up heterosexuality, I'm talking about pushing existing gender roles onto a couple, especially that of same sex. And let's be real? Fulfilling the og purpose of Omegaverse? Then they should've started with a alphaxomega story instead of baiting an alphaxbeta. See? That is queer baiting essentially, just in a different sense. If Omegaverse was real, AlphaxAlpha/AlphaxBeta/OmegaxBeta of the same primary sex WOULD BE the queer community. It's a given that a concept influenced majorly by straight people WILL have heteronormativeness into it. The 2000s yaoi joke is literally the walking example of it! And as I've said already, Heteronormative ideas stem from patriarchal concepts, which often align with homophobia. Also, why would it be a bad thing to think about it? It's fascinating how the societal issues in Omegaverse directly reflect the issues in our world so all I want to read about are queer people without het ideas being pushed into them.
If you don't like thinking much about it that's upto you, but you can't deny that the entirety of Omegaverse is queer friendly, because frankly, it is not. The better parts are the authors who approach the concept and execute it well, regardless of what the pairing is.

THANK YOUU

I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree

Also if your getting baited out of alpha x beta I don’t want to be mean but you should actually read the description of what you are trying to read or the tags because everyone I’ve ever read either OUTRIGHT mentions it or hinted to it so obviously you’re not going to miss that the secondary gender will change.

I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree

Idk why but idk if it’s letting me leave my full reply after the disagree part lol

great so I didn't read one manhwa's. What abt the rest? Does that really change anything? And fyi, half of the time it isn't even HINTED. It just goes "ooh alpha beta wonder what could happen "
So you go "ooh alpha beta wonder what could happen " AND BOOM it's an alpha omega all along. If i was really gonna crash out after the first one I read, it would've been years ago. I've read and dropped shi that went like this multiple times which brought me to bring this question up
Hope this helps

Hmm ok give me a few I literally have NEVER seen ones that didn’t outright say it or blatantly hint to it that does not help at all it’s literally just a matter of preference to you which is once again ok but has zero to do with homophobia

oml girl I can't you clearly do not understand nuances and have zero critical thinking skills I have listed EVERY reason why it has to do with homophobia and atp you're just like "LA LA LA I DONT HEAR YOU" while frantically shaking your head while covering your ears

And I have listed EVERY fucking reason why it’s NOT homophobia and you’re reaching so far up your ass to say shit. But since you CANNOT fucking listen I will gladly do it again. 1 it’s your preference. 2.you think that the trope means that they are saying “ you guys cannot be together unless you have children” why this IS wrong is because if you actually took the time to read stories of this trope you would see that people either use this as a plot point to get pregnant ON ACCIDENT because if you KNEW you were an omega you would not be having condomless sex without knowing of the possibility of pregnancy OR as a way for the author to create distance from the main character and their friends or partners or EVEN family. They are not trying to say the ONLY way you can be together is if you fuck and have kids like straight people

And on this topic since I’m so anti woke somehow when I’m literally quite the opposite being a gay black woman who is VERY VERY MUCH pro everyone should be happy we should talk about YOU. Your labeling this as “heteronormative” and making it seem like it’s automaticly a bad thing. Heteronormativity CAN be a bad thing and can 100% lead to homophobia IF homophobic people PUSH that heteronormativity onto gay couples/ media but 1. I don’t think an author that is drawing gay porn is going to be an example of that and 2. gay people are much more diverse then you think so a couple “fitting” a more heteronormative label is not homophobia or beta to omega is not forcing anyone to the type of heteronormativity that IS from homophobia. I can understand what you are trying to say but LABELING pregnancy and having kids as heteronormative is also harmful in itself. do you realize IN REAL LIFE the Queer couples who decide to do IVF and surrogacy and adoption get criticized BECAUSE of their choice to have kids because it’s only what “straight people are supposed to do” or “every family needs a mom and a dad”. I might be reaching here but homophobic people are not going to give queer people a break ever if the chose to or not to have kids so I don’t think labeling if a couple’s end result is children as heteronormative is a very healthy view and not as woke as you may think.

First of all, pushing your identity doesn't make you less "woke" since I too, am a queer poc and have witnessed my fair share of homophobic/racist queer poc. So it literally does not help.
And for some reason you have decided, among ALL my examples and arguments, that I'm mad for them getting pregnant or accidentally pregnant??

If i was pissed abt that I wouldn't be reading Omegaverse AT ALL, which I have read quite a few. You should've seen, so you'd know.

The issue IS NOT m/m couples birthing children.You seem to understand that heteronomativity directly refers to pregnancy but it doesn't.
It's not an issue about diversity either. IT IS AN ISSUE when they're pushing GENDER ROLES onto a couple which is a shitty thing regardless. And you may not seem to understand this, but your beliefs and ideologies show up in a piece of fiction you create. That's WHY there are so many awfully written leads which is due to internal sexism/homophobia that isnt dealt with.
We are all product of our environment and even I sometimes find myself being sexist at times without realising. The issue with it is staying that way instead of actively correcting yourself when you do it, but that's a different discussion.

Also, since we're talking about "pushing" agendas, I hope you realise that no ideology is instilled into someone aggressively. It is subtle, it is frequently exposed to them. So while some people may not fall for it, impressionable readers may end up building a set of beliefs that are harmful because of this tiny insignificant doses overtime. But that's also not what we're talking abt.

What I'm saying, for god knows what time, is the change of beta to an Omega is almost ALWAYS followed with stereotypes engulfing the characters. That's when unknowingly a belief is pushed.

And again, I'm not here preaching that it's bad,you shouldn't read it blah blah, I figured it homophobic,I did not like it, I asked for recommendation while excluding that trait with a strong comment so that I get nothing similar to it.

YOU'RE the one who asked and I replied. That's not preaching.

And for the last time if you're too lazy to read allat

HOMOPHOBIA = ONLY MAN AND WOMAN
GAY COUPLE = WHERE WOMAN?
BOTTOMING = WOMAN TASK. MUST BE WOMAN
BOTTOM = WOMAN. MUST ACT LIKE WIVES.

This is how it goes. It isn't an issue with js AlphaxBetas, but recurring issues in EVERY BL manhwas

Ah fuck I meant "more woke"* in the first line

This is getting absolutely nowhere and the way you replied seems like you barley skimmed over my comment

1. I never said that it made me more woke to be queer and black but it definitely gives me ALL the more reason to be woke especially if I said that I am for people being able to do whatever they want .

2. I can tell you didn’t read what I said closely because I never said your problem was accidental pregnancy I was explaining what the trope actually means not that that’s what your main concern

3.The point your making about “ bottoming being the woman’s task” to be honest is pretty homophobic I know what you mean I’m VERY sure there are some outliers but being a feminine person who is on bottom is not a result of homophobia that’s just expressing yourself if you think that the ONLY WAY to be a gay couple is if the bottom is fem and the Top is masculine and you are NOT gay and talking through your own lens then you are 100% carrying homophobic views but you have to realize couples who are gay and want to just be a fem bottom x masc top are VERY PROMINENT and it’s just because who they are I don’t at all think this is a issue in bl . Same way it’s fem bottoms and masc tops there’s also masc x masc pretty common aswell femxfem not that common unfortunately and masc bottom x fem top which is becoming more popular. To see fem bottom and masc top as something heteronormative is a tiny bit harmful because I think in reality it’s just attacking fem presenting gay people who also bottom because that SAME homophobia that you believe caused them to be this way ALSO shames them for being feminine. When you call it heteronormative it’s kinda reinforcing the idea that fem gay bottoms are “not gay enough”.

And if your talking about gender roles I’m not quite sure which gender roles are being pushed onto these Omegaverse and I feel like your more concerned about the SEXIST aspect of Omegaverse or a lot of the times literally the world mapping of Omegaverse. Not homophobia I haven’t read many that had gender roles besides like taking care of your child WITH help ect and NONE that were beta to omega that didn’t keep their careers ect. You mentioning gender roles is sexisim and isn’t homophobia. ALSO AGAIN diversity is key it’s not harmful to have all types of tropes in queer media unless is BLATANTLY creating a harmful ideology and stereotypes for example a harmful aspect to Omegaverse is why the hell are the ones with the uterus the lowest in society and often get treated like trash. THATS VERY HARMFUL . Or the normalized abuse kidnapping ect because that could cause people to take real life victims less serious. I personally think even IF you found a textbook example of what type of bl you’re talking about , it’s quite wrong to label any gay relationship that’s not harming people as heteronormative or a result of homophobia because of their dynamic.

Okay clearly we're both misunderstanding each other (and sorry if I happened to gloss over it, I did read it multiple times but my mind's pretty foggy from cold rn) because I never once said that the only way to be gay is to be masc and fem neither did I say that fem guys dont exist, or that bottoming is a woman's task. You may be misunderstanding my last part where I did the whole "gay couple, woman where?" But that wasn't MY beliefs or ideals, IM TALKING AGAINST that existing idea.

I'm well aware that fem presenting men in gay community is very common. What I AM saying is pushing a mascxmasc couple into a mascxfem straight ideal IS the homophobia, this has nothing to do with actual mascxfem gay couples. And yes I am talking about the sexism and gender roles present and are being pushed into this. You may not find it homophobic but it DOES translate to a form of homophobia where the third person cannot process that a couple may not strictly fall into the het mascxfem ideals. And while on the surface they seem fine, they end up pushing gender roles into the work. And that IS a form of homophobia , while rooted in Sexism (because let's be real, most issues (excluding racism,casteism) stem from sexism right?)

I'm not shaming fem presenting bottoms here, I'm shaming the erasure of masc bottoms by author who turn them feminine once they get into the relationship. Character's own choice and author's ideals are pretty easy to notice when that happens.

This is similar to when there's a wlw couple that are both fem presenting, but one of them is forced into a masc persona just to compensate those beliefs. THATS the homophobia and sexism I'm talking about.

And just to be clear, the idea of heteronomativity that I'm talking about here isn't about real gay couples. Those are humans of their own and it's their choice how they present themselves.
What I am talking about is the portrayals in media and fiction

Yes I understand that but what you think in fiction can very much translate to in real life.

I know what you meant, and I know you were arguing against beliefs you disagree with. My point is that thinking this way can end up erasing feminine bottoms in the community. If I criticized masc people for bottoming because they “weren’t feminine enough,” that would be stereotyping too.

I understand that forcing every masc × masc couple into a masc × fem dynamic can be homophobic but I don’t think that’s really whats happening to commonly . Who are we to decide who’s actually masc or fem beyond appearance? Masculinity and femininity are also part of personality and people naturally become softer with their partners regardless of what dynamic they may seem to present .

Sometimes it’s just the dynamic that couple has. Criticizing every BL with that dynamic as if it can’t naturally exist feels unfair and can end up dismissing real queer relationships.

https://www.mangago.me/read-manga/error_analysis_report/ (bl)

:: fake relationship and real feelings jeje ✎⋆.࿔*:･
https://www.mangago.me/home/mangalist/2504208/

Here you go darling enjoy! ヾ(❀╹◡╹)ﾉ~
https://www.mangago.me/home/mangalist/3350044/

TYSM LOVES HOPE YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEK

Showbiz, mc is an actor: Bittersweet Sweet Darling

Dakaretai Otoko Ichii Ni Odosarete Imasu. (Yaoi)
https://www.mangago.me/read-manga/dakaretai_otoko_ichii_ni_odosarete_imasu/

Backstage de Aimashou
https://www.mangago.me/read-manga/backstage_de_aimashou/

Hello Morning Star
https://www.mangago.me/read-manga/hello_morning_star/