belle's Topics (4)

I fear you can get to that conclusion in 10 chs. I think a lot of you think the author was trying to make some point with this work and that impression is so interesting tbh. Violence/torture porn is a point in itself and it is the point here.

there's no magical unsaid criteria that makes a story "worthy" of an adaptation. what a strange thing to say.

not that big of an ask for a story that's going to have hours upon hours of effort and time put into it to be adapted to also be kind of well written (๑•ㅂ•)و✧

How does this story end if you don't mind me asking

really? i see it as a big ask. you're not entitled to a well-written story if you're going to be this dismissive of an someone's work.

artist's* ヾ(❀╹◡╹)ﾉ~

People like you see any criticism towards a work like a personal attack on the producer s character. Nuance is an allergy for your type

.i don't have a single issue with their critique of the story lmao i took an issue with the fact that they think the metric for manhwa adaptations is quality. it's not anyone's business what gets adapted or not, and since we are all here reading it for free, keep the self-importance to a minimum. you're not owed shit. "your type" could do with a break from all the glue you're sniffing.

So criticism is a payday action to you, the right to criticize art is brought with money in your mind? It is called freedom of speech, anyone can criticize art as long as they are in contact with it, it should not be commoditied to only the ones that pay for it. You sound mad and with issues of emotional regulation using all this ad hominem at the end, cause you cannot understand critical thinking. You are just humiliating yourself talking like an angry middle schooler and swearing over nothing. It is pitiful

you're the one who sounds very angry to me, to the point where what i said completely flew over your head. when did i claim someone's right to criticize a story is tied to their payment status? pirating has allowed us accessibility, not the rein to claim something is not worth an adaptation because it's lacking in quality. their original comment was dismissive of the creator's free will as an artist, and their arbitrary metric by which something should get a manhwa won't dictate the novels chosen for serialization. it was just an odd thing to say. this is called freedom of speech as well, kaworu

Then why are you so mad about people criticizing the drama and saying "you are not owed anythibg" when no one said we were? "Keep the self importance to a minimum " and the only thing people are doing is giving their opnion. The only one cursing here and saying someone is smelling glue (very childish come back I must say lol) is you. So maybe calm down and let people criticize things without acting like you are personally paying for the drama to be adapted? People are allowed to criticize it, that is not them giving themselves too much "self importance" lol. That is literally normal

dude, did you not read their original comment? i almost feel sorry for OP now. when they say "i dont think the novel was good enough to deserve an adaptation when compared to other, better novels", they imply that stories with "real merit"—whatever that means, and who gets to decide that, i don't believe you're willing to discuss—is something owed to them by the manhwa industry. i'm saying it's not, and that it's a conceited statement to make.

so youre mad because i dont think the story was good enough to become a manhwa?? the story isnt written well, that is literally the only metric by which a story should be adapted or not. im not seeing your issue.

i never said anyone owed me anything, i just dont think the novel was written well enough to have the effort of a manhwa put into it. if they made a shitty book a movie i'd say the same thing— nobody owes me anything, im allowed to criticize things im informed on. have you read the whole thing before you came into this comment section with your holier-than-thou retoric?

they stay together...

what metric would you have adaptations made by? popularity? shock factor? oh, or maybe, possibly, the quality of the actual writing like we all judge every peice of literature we read? ┑(￣Д ￣)┍

You acting like there re not real metricts to judge a work is funny, when you obviously have, there is an entire field of study about writting narratives. Taste is personal, quality is measurable

They never said they owed them anything, they are simply stating they dont think this is well written compared to other works. You made a scenario in your head to paint another person as entitled when they never said that. They did not say "this industry should give us this and this type of works only" they said there are other better works out there that deserved an adaptation more. That is just an opnion. There is nothing to be worked up about this

you are operating on the idea that this adaptation came about for any reason other than the artist being interested in it, which is laughable. criticizing a story, wishing for serializations of different novels, resenting a story because it doesn't appeal to you; that is what the consumer does. i'm not here to invalidate you or belle's critique, or trying to say they're literally forcing the artist to create a different manhwa specifically for them, but i hope you realize that when someone makes the condescending claim of "a different novel within the same genre deserves a manhwa more than Reverse Thinking", they discredit the creator's work.

if quality is measurable, why do opinions coming from experts in this field of study differ so vastly? i'm not of the opinion that fictional stories do not follow the technical foundations laid by academia, but they're weighed differently according to who you speak to. someone could think that, in the same way you believe Reverse Thinking is narratively weak, this story objectively succeeds because it fulfills its intended purpose, which is vicious erotica. the argument falls apart when you take into account another framework. effectiveness is not a indicator of quality, but it does factor into *why* this in particular would "deserve" a manhwa above all the other so-called better works, which somehow belle decided all by themselves lol. the most valuable metric by which adaptations are made is personal and commercial interest. you might think this story is comparatively bad, but the reason it has 40+ chapters up is because it appealed to the team and the artist's niche. if they have a specific work in mind that they believe would be more worthy of a manhwa, I'd love for them to share. popularity is a big factor too.

i'll apologize and say i've clearly read too far into their off-handed comment, when nobody really cares that much about the "hours and hours" poured into this project if they think it would've been better spent elsewhere.

Every single work someone has poured hours into it, it is speacial to the author and that is valid. That does not make the work good, well written or "worth it". That is just reality, doesn't mean you cannot like the work or disagree and say you think it should have an adaptation, just like they think it shouldn't. What is weird is painting them as entitled for a normal criticism.

This goes more into ad hominem than a real counter towards what they were saying. Instead of trying to attack their character you could have listed points about how this work is worth being adapted or talked about how in the bl industry this type of work still sells so it is worth adapting it money wise for exemple.

Yaoi was always a genre with a lot of violence so this work indeed fits to be adapted, this would be a point to support your view instead of an attack to someone s character. Someone that went and read the whole novel before criticizing.

ILY toxicyurism. I don’t totally agree with you but I think it’s rlly funny how Kaworu comes here every so often to be an armchair psychologist, misuse the word pedophile, and try to act intellectual despite being a gooner for a guy wearing douyin makeup who would never, ever fuck them, even if some typa Chris Chan dimensional merge happened lol.

The time and labor the author and artist put into the story make it worthwhile. Perhaps not to you, but definitely to people who are invested in the story. That’s what makes art so beautiful. I’m glad it got an adaptation because I think everyone deserves a little Jiwook torture to take the edge off.

All in all, good review though. I don’t agree with a lot of it but extra points for going the extra mile and reading the novel just to better form your opinion. What if we all held hands and lowered each other’s cortisol together. #Paradise

you are not hearing me. nothing i said was an attack on their character, i just pointed out that their bad-faith argument for why Reverse Thinking specifically doesn't deserve a manhwa out of all the revenge rape yaoi novels out there was undermining the artist. it adds nothing to their original criticism other than be dismissive of the author because according to them, it's not good enough. i didn't say anything about why that might not might be true, and why they contradict themselves when they praise the character work in one breath then say it has no substance in the other, because nothing i say will change their mind about disliking Reverse Thinking. i can blather all i want about this being a decent novel that deserves the manhwa it got, but this conversation would have gotten derailed even further since i fundamentally disagree with belle on the intent. there is no "point" that's muddled by the frequency at which juyeon and others rape jiwook, because the point is the rape. i hope you can see why I'm not willing to participate in this debate with someone who found it torture to get through the novel. they probably just don't want to think about it anymore lol it's not an achievement for them to have read the whole novel despite not liking it. but again, i admit i was reading too far into their odd comment about quality.

Bro you obssesed with me, i dont even know who you are but you know me? Lmao

Taste doesnt make it worthon a writting metric, makes it worthy on an affection and proximity to the lector level.

You literally straight up called them entitled for no reason

Tries to act like an intelectual? If what I say sounds so intelectual to you, your intelectual measure is very low lmao. I say obvious stuff that are simply my opnions, just cause I use words you may not be used to doesnt mean I am trying to be an intelectual. And I never rid I goon to juyeon, you goon to jiwook being tortured so you trying to virtue sign about that is hilarious.

You seem to be the one with high cortisol seeing how you are holding a grudge over me when I dont even know who you are

Me being a psychology graduate makes this even funnier, but discussing psychological topics is something everyone does here in a very interesting way, I dont see why you got an issue with that. Maybe you got too mad about something I told you that I honestly dont even remember cause I have no idea who you are . Unlucky for you that I will keep comming and probably keep forgeting about you.

lmaoooo i think they're a juyeon fan but they've certainly got an interesting way of showing it. so much negative energy in this place smh

Yeah idk i think the last time we spoke they kept insisting Jiwook was a pedophile bc 1 and a half year age gap. They just be giving those degrees to anybody I guess.

Accusing me of being the mad one when you posted five replies to my comment like “AND ANOTHER THING!!!!1!1!1!” Is definitely the play here. You are so smart. And I don’t goon to Jiwook or Juyeon. I goon to obscure yuri like someone with class. I’m here because I think watching these two rapist perverts ruin each other’s lives is hilarious. We’re BOTH freaks. You people will throw around virtue signaling like a hot potato every time.

they really, REALLY wanted to let you know how little they cared. played it so cool, too. what's your favourite yuri to goon to, max?

Lately it’s been Hottie’s Heel(?) I don’t think there’s an official English title so that’s the version of the title I read on a crappy scanlation site, but I fucking LOVE femme worship. Tbh if Jiwook and Juyeon were butchfemme I’d deskin my junk by jorking it too hard. But I don’t think people could handle yuri as abusive as your avg yaoi misery porn. Plus if we’re clinging onto the feeble strand of realism Revenge has to offer, women aren’t exactly empowered to rape one another to conquer. My heart yearns for stories about women as “men” in a way.

there's a lot of aversion to writing women hurting each other the same way men in yaoi do. these feminine abstractions of male characters in yaoi are enough for most people because they're too scared to confront their misogyny head on and admit their interpretation of sapphic stories as "male-gazey" isn't one borne of concrete evidence, but ignorance. i don't think they're evil male centric disgusting pervert fujoshis for reading exclusively yaoi, but i wish there was more hype from self-proclaimed himefujos for yuri that's more "yaoi-like" (because women can't be evil without it somehow having something to do with a man).

doesn't help that a lot of himejoshis online enjoy and uphold this kind of sanity. there's a lot of pushback against "problematic" yuri, because sapphic love is beautiful, pure, sensual, evangelical— whoops, i meant devoid of beastly desire, silly. we can't have them commit rape. female characters are formless, passive creatures we keep preserved in glass jars.

that aside, thanks for the good read. not really bean flicking material, but i highly recommend "gunjou" if you're looking for stories about messy, mutually destructive and disturbing yuri, it's top tier.

thanks!! (=・ω・=) i hate hate hate when people talk about stuff like this w/o reading the whole thing, and i try not to be like that when i review things

i think some of you guys' comments are fair, when viewing this story as exclusively porn. its just not what i look for in my yuri or yaoi, and i wasn't expecting the violence. i tend to get attached to characters and when distressing things happen to them with no justice served, if there isnt plot to keep me there, i usually end up dropping it, which is primarily why i dont like reverse thinking.

i was rocking with it until the gang rape, and the red room made my skin crawl because kidnapping plots PMO SOOOOOO BAD idk why. i'd been waiting for each chapter since the beginning, so i felt obligated to keep reading it because i thought it'd have a satisfactory ending even though i wasn't enjoying it anymore, and switched to the novel so i'd be able to see if it got better— i was super bummed when it didnt. torture porn aint my thing （￣へ￣）

And still you are here on a YAOI talking about jiwook tortured body lmaooo who are you trying to play?

I literally say I am a juyeon simp in my comments lmao

I post several replies to anyone, instead of big ones, you can see in any of my replies. You are the parasocial one while I dont even know who you are if your only argument is how many replies i make even tho I always do that, that is pretty weak. Was expecting more

Is reading yaoi enough to be a freak nowadays? It is just a manhwa, bro

Never said I didnt care about the discussion or about what they are talking, if i didnt i would not be replying. You were the one saying you didnt care and writting paragraphs. I simply said i didnt know them, what is in fact true, i am trying to remember when i talked to them.

That’s completely fair. I agree on the torture porn point lol. I think there’s a lot of potential for more. Kudos for reading the whole thing even though you knew it wouldn’t be a satisfactory read for you. There are parts of it that are strong imo, but they don’t get fleshed out enough. Sometimes you get psychological horror with torture porn sprinkled on the side and sometimes you get torture porn with psychological horror sprinkled on the side. I have fun with the manhwa so I’m a happy camper, but if they committed harder to the anguish and confusion Jiwook (and I suppose the audience) goes through before the big bombshell, I’d be even happier. Unfortunately he’s just a dumb rapist. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Hell yeah, will check Gunjou out asap. I agree with the internalized misogyny stuff. I think himes and fujos suffer a lot of that, interestingly enough. People who refuse to expand their horizons just because they aren’t interested in stories about women are WEAK!! The excuse that there isn’t any yuri that appeals to them sux because a lot of the time you just need to look harder. That being said, a lot of himes are deeply, deeply afraid of problematic material entering their precious yuri because the taboo stuff is supposed to be a yaoi thing, ig. Personally I love problematic women, and I’d really like it if more stories about women who make the conscious decision to emulate “male” terror hit the mainstream.

like the moment the kid appears drop it