Frencybayeta

Thank you. Your comment is not quite the same my thoughts but I feel fine because it is like an adult talking. Joowon and Haesoo's relationship has lasted for many years, we still don't know all that happened so don't rush to assert, every character's words or actions have reason.

Well said to explain Joowon reaction in chap 31. I agree their relationship is almost like this from the begining, and "don't act what he wants" or provoking each other is how their relation works but what's happen in chap 31 is still makes me shock. Like, I can't imagine forcing a BJ and then giving it back are normal action between them for almost 6 years. It really makes his image worse in my eyes (who has neutral views for all 3 characters) and I hope their past in future chapters will show us the good reason. Besides, I am happy when Haesoo finally realizes he shouldn't maintain this situation anymore and wants to change. It would probably make Joowon change. Taku was originally a rather mysterious character, but what the author portrays him in chap 32 and 36 is very warm. Maybe so, it makes people (including me) judge Joowon's action more harshly.

By the way, I think you absolutely have your right to like Joowon and discuss about him here. Look forwards to see what happen between 3 of them.

Thank you too for the intervention and for the understanding even though you don’t share my opinion.
I did’t actually rush to assert, I’m sorry if that’s what I transmitted through my speech.
I didn’t mean to.
Actually I agree with you, the story isn’t entirely developed yet.
We will see.

I really understand why you’re shocked by Joowon’s behaviour, especially if you saw the raws with Taku.
I have something to say about that, I hope you’re interested.
Joowon with is bad temper is also a really egocentric person, without any doubt, but he seems quiet willing to receive but also to give when the metter is sex.
The only problem is that he is so ‘generous’, only when he wants to be.
If you compare chapter 3 and the last one, it’s clear what I want to explain (or at least I hope so).
In fact in the third episode, at some point Joowon starts to kiss Heasoo, who like always protests a bit before surrounding, but then Joowon stops half way because he states that he is turn off by the hotel shampoo.
What a poor excuse, considering the fact that he already smelled the scent minutes before.
We don’t know the real reason behind this sudden change of opinion, but as we can see he stops because at that moment he didn’t want it anymore, leaving Heasoo absolutely pissed. A real selfish jerk yeah?
Obviously I’m not excusing the action or the behaviour but it’s clear that Joowon, egocentric as he is, thinks that when he wants something is right to insist over it, and considering Heasoo’s responses during the years, somewhere along the line Joowon probably starts to think that this was actually a good tactic.
I really don’t think that Joowon intended to be mean through that behaviour.
I believe that this attitude of his, which is ‘I do what I want when I want to’ is a result from his past with Heasoo.
In chapter 15 pages 14,15,16; Joowon makes some sort of jealousy outburst in which is obviously pissed, angry and sad but, the interesting part is the dialogue between the two stepbrothers, where Heasoo asks: ‘You don’t like it when I hang out with other guys, do you?’; and Joowon, in spite of being a very prideful guy, replies: ‘No. I hate that shit. Would you stop doing it if I told you not to?’ And then there’s the worst part of it, when Heasoo, with a smiley mocking face, answers: ‘You know what hyung? I fucking love it when you get angry ‘cause of me. So I’m not gonna listen to you.’
I mean Joowon was equally bad, but this is a really mean thing to say, which gets worse with Heasoo’s giggle.
I don’t think it is a case that Joowon often repeats this sentence, or that Heasoo himself keeps stating this demeanour.
In chapter 24 page 2, Joowon says ‘Sorry Heasoo. But I don’t wanna do as you say, either’; then also in the last chapter ‘You don’t want it? Well, too bad. ‘Cause I only wanna do what you tell me not to.’
Every time he thinks or says this phrase he always wear a smirk on his face like ‘You do remember this sentence, don’t you?’
It could be just a case or maybe for Joowon those words were really harmful.
This doesn’t justify nothing, but it could explain why Joowon keeps acting this way, using those words against Heasoo.
I know that he may seem a total sloppy asshole, but he is human too and there’s a possibility that Heasoo’s past statement did hurt him more deeply than it seems.

Sorry for blabbing so much, I hope that doesn’t bother you.
Enjoy your night!
Thanks for commenting and understanding my point of view.

THANK YOU. i completely agree. and i'm not a fan of joowon at all but i still think it's unfair for him to be 100% completely under the heat here.

their relationship has been like this from the start. even though the bj may have been different from what we've seen in the past, we obviously havent seen everything so it's silly to assume this hasn't happened before.

I agree. In my opinion, Joowon has also been deeply hurt from the past, thus affecting his words and actions now.

In chapter 15 Joowon said "Haesoo, why pretend not to know? You made me like this"
This is also a detail to note.

No, I'm not saying you rush to assert. I just talk about the story. I hope you understand ^^

Thank you too for the comment!
Also thanks for the time you spent reading my endless speech.

I hope the author will show us more, about this troublesome past.

Yes! You’re absolutely right.
This is also an important statement.
I think it should be taken into account more often.

Oh okay, I misunderstood your words yesterday.
Sorry ╥﹏╥

Well said, especially about the part when you talk about how people in the comments should stop wanting Sangwoo to be tortured and suffer more. I think that ppl need to understand that more violence won't solve anything. Sangwoo was a very damaged soul who hurt others to try to ease his pain all because of the terrible things that happened his past with his mother. I'm not saying this to justify his actions because what he did was very wrong. It's just that Sangwoo just didn't know how to cope with his pain and sadness and that greatly affected his mental health. Than you have Bum who also went through a lot of pain and misery because of his uncle. He was treated like dirt, abused and even raped by his uncle probably multiple times. Bum has suffered through so much as well and I think meeting Sangwoo probably damaged his mental health even more.
I want to think that in the end of this manhwa I think they both realized that they loved each other a lot. Especially Sangwoo because he realized what he had after he was burned and finally saw bum for who he was like you said which I thought was a good thing but it was much too late.
This ending has me with mix emotions because a part of me is happy that they both died because they were able to hopefully find peace because the world would had just been a place that caused nothing but misery for both of them. Especially Bum because even though he was freed from Sangwoo the world was still treating him as dirt and being very cruel to him. And Sangwoo would have kept being ridiculed and hated by the world for his actions. Than another part of me just wanted them both to live, I wanted Bum to see Sangwoo just one more time before Sangwoo went to jail. For them to speak to each other and hear there thoughts about what they felt about this situation and about each other, and to see what Bum would have done once he finally got to see Sangwoo's face. Anyway, this just how I felt and sorry for rabbling

I think exactly the same ╥﹏╥

Hi! Sorry for my late reply.
I’m really glad that you shared your opinion here, so don’t worry about anything and thanks :)

I’d also like to share some more thoughts about this story:

For what concerns Sangwoo’s case, I don’t know if he killed those people to alleviate his pain, but this is totally an option.
But I also think that what he did is connected to something more deeper.
When we are children, our parents have the task to give us the first imprinting and feedbacks, also to teach us how to interact with the others.
Sangwoo’s parents, due to many circumstances, gave him the wrong ones; they practically broke their child and his mental stability, giving him a completely distorted and ill view of reality.
This destructive process goes from Sangwoo’s birth to Sangwoo’s mother’s death; accompanying him, with the associated repercussions, until his decease.
I imagine him as a toddler, helpless and frightened, thinking something similar to:’ mommy says she loves me; she cares for me; but then she insults me; she tries to hurt me; I can’t breath; now she’s crying; she says that she is sorry; she says that she loves me.
I don’t understand but I love her.’
Then again:’ mommy says she loves daddy; she kisses him; prepares him meals; but now she is with another man; she says that she loves him; she insults daddy.
I don’t understand but I’m not telling daddy.
I love her.’
With his father:’ daddy loves me; daddy loves mommy; he likes to play with me but now is always busy; daddy doesn’t want me to eat near him; now he insults me; he insults mommy; he hits me; he hits mommy.
I don’t understand but I love him.’
This is just some, of the many things that Sangwoo could have thought as a little child.
Looking at the scenes with naive, innocent eyes.
He grew up with this behaviour pattern, without no one to help him, no one to talk with about this tragic situation.
He shouldered this huge burden all by himself for all his childhood and teenage years.
These formative years are crucial for a person’s development, and his parents completely destroyed them, along with Sangwoo’s perception and social interaction.
I really can’t imagine something worse than being betrayed, tortured, abused, broke by the people that gave you life.
I can’t stand the fear and angst that Sangwoo could have experienced, returning home while thinking what his mother could have done this time.
The lack of safety in his own house.
That’s aberrant and Sangwoo went through it in only 20 years of life (I know he was in his early twenties, but I don’t know his age exactly)..that’s really too much in a really short time.

Bum’s case was slightly different.
Koogi didn’t show us his childhood, so I assume that it was quite normal (I mean, he wasn’t mistreated by his parents, if I remember correctly).
His life changes when he starts to live with his uncle and grandmother.
In this period Bum suffers abuse, betrayal, pain.
He was treated like shit and constantly insulted by his uncle, who clearly despised him without no acceptable reason, ending up even raping him.
But somehow his situation is less tragic in my point of view.
I explain.
Bum’s sufferance was caused by people that weren’t supposed to love him as a parent should (that obviously doesn’t justify any harmful action towards Bum, or his uncle’s behaviour that is unreasonably wrong!).
I’m not saying that an uncle, or a grandmother, or whatever can’t love you the same way as a parent (because I clearly know that there are unfortunate people, that didn’t get the chance to meet, grow, stay or whatever with their parents, but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t equally loved), but we can say that those people are ‘allowed’ not feel the fondness and dedication that parents should naturally feel towards their child.
They actually created this human being and for this, they should treasure it as the most important thing of their life.
For this reason I think that Bum, even though suffered abuse, betrayal and a lot of unjustly sufferance(caused by his uncle and also by the girl in his class), it doesn’t have the same weight as Sangwoo’s.
Bum wasn’t totally alone during this process, his granny was there, and somehow she tries to protect him (even though I think, that she could have done much more to guard his grandson), she got beaten up for him and she showed for him some kind of love and affection, but after all she couldn’t save him.

By this speech, I’m not trying to say that Bum didn’t suffer during his life, he clearly did, too much, but honestly if someone would ever ask me, which one between Sangwoo and Bum suffered more, I would totally say Sangwoo.
As I explain before, I can’t imagine anything worse that being betrayed, abused, raped physically and mentally by your own parents.
They gave you life, created you, you’re literally the combination of them, so what the damn hell.

Regarding what you said about Bum’s condition after meeting Sangwoo, I honestly don’t know if he worsens It.
Actually I think that he made him somehow stronger(in fact at the end of the story, he has the courage to force his decisions on Sangwoo and to contrast, to oppose Sangwoo’s actions); so I don’t know.
Sangwoo clearly didn’t treat Bum well during their experience, obviously due to his problems, but he managed to make him feel safe and loved in a way no one else did.
Surely the obsession towards Sangwoo helped the situation and the development of the feelings but at the end, what I see, is a Bum slightly different from the start.
Stronger but still fragile, braver but still not enough to take charge of the situation.
My point of view can be crazy and you have the absolute right to tell me so.
I just wanted to share it with you.



I hope you understand what I’m trying to say, maybe my speech is boring and full of obviousness but I really wanted to talk about this with you.
Sorry for the far too long discourse.

Enjoy your day!

First I just wanted to say that I'm really sorry for replying sooo late. I've been so busy with school and taking care of a new puppy that i haven't had to much time to be on this site, so I'm sorry about that again.
I think your speech wasn't boring at all, you made some great points and used many examples to back up your statements.I found this to be very interesting and had a great time reading it.
When you were talking about the imprinting that happens between a parent and child it is very true that that happens. Children are supposed to look to the parents for guidance, love, support and understanding. So whatever the parents do or how they act in front of the children they will surely do the same thinking it's the right thing to do even if it could be perceived as wrong by others. Sangwoo's parents, especially his mom where definitely a bad influence on Sangwoo. For Sangwoo it seemed to be more mental abuse rather than physical. It seemed like the mother knew exactly what would effect him and break him. Knowing how to manipulate him to do what she's wants. For example when she told sangwoo that he was the reason that his father died and that he killed him. When I'm pretty her that she was probably the main reason of how he died since she poisoned him. She even got Sangwoo to help her bring the body to the woods and make it look like a suicide. I think that she had Sangwoo wrapped around her little finger and was able to make him do exactly what she wanted. I think what really broke Sangwoo was that he found out that his own mother was trying to poison him and that definitely damaged his mental health a lot and also when she raped him I think he really lost it then as well. I do agree that Sangwoo has suffered a lot in the past and the person he became was because of his mother in my opinion from all the things that happened to him in the past.
For me I think Bum suffered a lot as well, he lost his parents and had to live with a monster that insult him all the time, beat him and would sometimes ban him for eating dinner. I understand what you meant when you said that a you can't replace a parents love and kindness and that a uncle won't really give you that love and fondness as a parent should. I still think that even though they weren't Bum's parents they still really made a major impact in his life. I feel like Bum had so suffered as well as Sangwoo but compared to who suffered more I just wouldn't be able to say you know just for the fact there situations where both bad and people who have been through that have different ways of handling it and how bad they perceive it to be you know. But i understand what your saying that Sangwoo situation was worse than Bum's but I feel that I wouldn't be able to compare there situations. I just think they both suffered a lot and had a lot to go through when they were younger. I just wish that they would have showed more of bum's past to see what else happened in his life and what else influence him to be the way he is now.
I also wanted to say that the reason why I think that Bum's condition worsen after meeting Sangwoo was that he was able to kill someone without thinking twice about stabbing her multiple times. Do i think he became stronger and started to get better towards the end I did but all that went down hill once Sangwoo killed Bum's Uncle and then started to hurt bum towards the end of this series. I think that Bum probably really couldn't handle the lost of Sangwoo and that's why he started to see illusions towards the end which I think maybe ended up killing him if he did die at the end but anyway I do agree that he was strong but was fragile as you stated but in the end he wasn't able to handle pressure of world and be able to live on his own because he had no one anymore and others would just treat him like crap so think his mental state was still unstable and in the end that was what caused him to die but this is just my opinion correct me if I'm wrong with anything I said or if you don't agree with me. I'm sorry for the long wait and reply but I hope you understand what I'm mean and where I'm coming from with my statements (●'◡'●)ﾉ

Hi Yaya!
I’m really sorry for replying so late but this period was a bit of mess for me..
I’m really happy for you though, especially for the new puppy(⌒▽⌒)
I hope you two are doing well!

Anyway thanks again for your opinion and compliments, I’m really glad you answered.
At first I thought that my speech was a bit extreme but it makes me happy that you appreciated it.
I agree with most of the points in your statement and I mainly think that we have the same opinion about this topic.
The only part where we have a different view concerns Bum and Sangwoo’s past life.
It is hard to compare Sangwoo and Bum’s situations, they are different and yet both so painful.
Bum has a really submissive and pessimistic attitude towards life as a result of his experience while Sangwoo is overly aggressive and cruel due to the same reason.
Fear, abuse, rejection are some of the sad things they have in common, although they effected them in a different way.
I clearly understand why you find it so difficult to compare their problematic stories, honestly it was difficult for me too but at the same time I couldn’t help but think, that Sangwoo’s parents’ betrayal is the worst thing that anyone can ever experience in life.
I know that this may sound exaggerate, but I really do think it.
This doesn’t make Bum’s situation better, he clearly suffered unforgivable obscenity, that completely destroyed his being.
He was sold out and abused by his family members, although they weren’t his parents and that’s equally shameful.
Even though Sangwoo’s past effected me the most, Bum’s entire experience really made me suffer and even if it’s sad to say that, I’m glad that they both ended this agony.

I’m honest, I still don’t know if I like this ending more or if I would prefer something less realistic and more ‘romantic’ with both of them still alive.. I’m still a bit conflicted.
Anyway the author did a really great job handling stark and sensitive contents.
I’m really grateful I was able to read this story and also being able to discuss my opinion with you, that was funny and interesting.
Sorry again for the delay and thanks for sharing your opinion.
Enjoy your day ヾ(☆▽☆)