hagaymaru's Topics (655)

I think the artist was originally gonna draw him take a shat but changed their mind and made him pee instead which is why it's drawn like that

"I can draw rape, but I draw the line at scat" why scat is so shocking to people idk lol

NGL I don't wanna look at shat so I'm glad they changed it lmao

I think scat is something more rare so people are less desensitized. That and the fact pooping has a much different gross out factor

I never got this lmao, like people can fap to rape, but poop scares them

Each have different boundary? Like I can stand this but damn reading some gore would makes me jumping and somehow shaking from feeling it on my own body.

For people it isn't exactly they think SA is better than poop is just that shit is much different thing.

I just think it is more of an exposure thing. Most people will have a harder boundarie around poop than they have around sa, because of exposure in media. Kinda like gore too, most people will have more boundaries on viceral gore than on sa. Sa is pretty common. I agree with Big Rat, people got desensitized to sa in a way they didnt to poop, even tho poop is much more natural and normal.

Hmm, make a sense. Tho in gore I kinda doesnt agree because plenty people desensitize on it more than non-con and even can think it as more normal genre to be accepted than this.

I think more people are desensitized to sa than gore to be honest, nowadays even rape is kinda treated like a sub category of porn. Rape is one of the most common jokes on social media now, speacially tik tok that has young users.

To the point it is so accessible a lot of men cannot tell what is rape (and even women) and what is not if it is not in a back alley with a knife, cause of how much violent porn people have acess from a young age.

Non con is one of the most sold subcategories of romance and porn, there was a rape subreddit with more than million users, now gore still has the gross aspect to help it and it does not have the alure sex has, sex sells much more. Now consuming real gore on gore sites, it is less people

Hmm, yeah. This kinda valid argument. I just have a bias I suppose since I found some people acclaimming that gore genre is nothing burger comparing with non-con but when I go to their respective "community" gore enjoyer would show up with even real gore where "non-con" community pretty much usually wont talk about real crime and stuck in fictional domain.

But maybe whats make those people can say it exactly because how easy rl people outside fiction to accessing it, like u said. Different with gore, which make people not really think its that important to condempt for the same reason.

I think it depends on the community you are, I agree that the gore community gets more real content while the non con community doesnt, but for me that is more to do with attraction. Non con is heavily sexual, most real cases are not done by an attractive guy with a 3 meters dick or a woman with daddy cups and insane hourglass like in non con works. So the real cases dont work the same like the real gore material, cause the gore material does not need to rely on the criminal being attractive to work.

That is why non con enjoyers prefer fiction instead of a real case where an obese 50 y.o is the abuser instead of a handsome wealthy 6'0 guy or a woman with a "mommy" build.

Eh, wont denying that non-con enjoyer, since it tied to the sexual aspect more instead of the violence act like what happened to gore would of course enjoy it more with an attractive characters being put there but to discredit a genre enjoyer refuse to engage with the rl counterpart just because attractiveness sound ... wrong. Desensity or not about the topic is, its sound like the only reason non-con work is because they wont find the rl act pleasureable to watch just because the perpetrator is not attractive, not because they condempt the act itself happened on another human being.

Most of non con works have attractive leads, why is that? Would it be as famous if it was a 50 y.o obese man doing it? I doubt. And I say this as a non con and yandere enjoyer. Most guys that get simped on in non con works would never receive that treatment if they were ugly that is what they are irl. That is why when they are handsome what is rare they even receive love letters and a fandom. Now gore doesn't rely on that, the appearance of the one killing someone and recording doesnt matter

Would half of these people read this manhwa if juyeon and jiwook were not conventionally attractive? If the art wasn't so hot?

Not saying that ur point about rape topic is desensity is wrong. I kinda agree with ur explanation. But pretty much vital debate about why genre was condempted in the community exactly because a lot people boxing the fiction and rl as the same thing, like what happened on gore community (for people who enjoy it or just see it as an outsider) where they see the violence that happened on another human being and what happened in fiction that they read is enjoyable. And thus the standard is somehow shared here. Because like u said, there is a plenty way people accessing rl rape contents that it desensity them enought to comparing it with fictional contents and considering the the same, its make them think that anyone enjoying it would share the same mindset as them and thus enjoying it solely as a crime not as a genre.

I dont think anyone thinks reading this is a crime, I think people criticize the comodification of rape to the point it looks more like a subcategory of porn than a subcategory of a crime. Rape is different from any crime and it is the crime that is the most easy to desensitize young people to by media. Because how much you can paint it as hot. Rape was never really seem as a serious issue, so that is why people get more worked up about it than about murder or violence for example. Some years ago marital Rape was not even a thing. Fiction exists inside reality and affect the way people see things, that is why propaganda exists. For example how usa used black caricatures to desensitize people to dehumanization of blacks in cartoons, it was just fiction too, but it has an effect

I have a non con kink, but I will not pretend me being raised as a woman under patriarchy had no influence on this. Most people with receiving non con kinks are women and obviously that is not a coincidence

Eh, dont u said it urself that this genre is closely related on sexual relationship where attractiveness is pretty vital point? I wont denying that. Its the part about the way u talk about the reason people doesnt enjoy rape in rl is because the attactiveness, not because its a crime on another human being. Its like u implied if the rapist is handsome suddenly the act in rl would be justified by the community when there is a a clear border that the community can see the difference about the genre and the crime.

Furry is another case where the border is work well despite their "shared" interest with their rl counterpart crime zoophilia. I would say in non-con community (or kink community, but Im not that deep on that one) its pretty much work like furry did instead of gore. But again, with ur explanation, I understand too the reason why people more easily condempt the community because majority is desensity enough on the topic, thus makes what happened here and rl as the same thing.

And we have cases of handsome killers and rapists that have fans, received letters, marriage proposals, both female and male criminals so yeah pretty much.

I think furry does not really compare as much when their interest is far from what an actual animal looks like most of the time, it is more an interest over anthropomorphic creatures. The community is pretty chill and awesome.

And in my opnion the reason why people "freak out" about rape is cause it is a crime that was never taken seriously to begin with, you can have men in power saying "if rape is inevitable sit and relax" and nothing happens. Rape has been reconized as a crime pretty recently so this "oh everyone knows it is wrong" that people use is not as real as they think, just like peds, the concept we have of children is very recent, but young people were born in a time like this so they think these concepts are marked on a stone and can never regress.

Ah, Ive seen people who raise the topic of comodification of rape in supcategory of porn and its valid because its pretty much rooted on patriachy itself who see female body as an object thats why the comodification can be find as long as patriarchy exist and hardly being seen as a crime. That why my take on the topic about the genre is would always refers back on how they see the fiction that they consume and why its important for u to understand ur own stance and moral before consume anything.

Its more like reality exist inside fiction. The way ur mind work is how much its affecting u to believe the said fiction and why there is an age appropriation tag for each theme. There is a reason for heavy theme like this, its usually labeled as mature content and oretty much should never being given on young audience because people at that age already understand the boundary and able to processing it.

In another note, the case of black caricature in cartoon is actually about how society at that time see and interpet something and thus its visible of how they put their reality inside of the fiction that they made. Its harmless enought for them to considering it normal, just like how people at that time make a lot mysogynist joke and animation. Something that they can put children to watch because its their normalcy, different with this genre that pretty much is adviced to be consumed by adult.

I think that the disagreement parts from the point that you see the consuming of media as individual while I am talking about the industry in itself. I can consume it with a separation, but that does not erases that female bodies are still being used like that to produce this type of material by big corporations. It is one thing to have some people writting it on wattpad it is another to see that there is a whole genre around it that raises a lot of money from violence against women (cause you will rarely see a straight man in this position, mostly are bottoms in bls and we know why it is mostly bottoms that suffer this abuse). That rape is seem as a profitable topic in the porn industry is a result of how society sees rape in itself. I can consume it and know that and this issue does not changd, it is still present.

Exactly. We life under patriachy is exactly the reason why we got our first exposure on rape commodity in rl. And thats exactly the reason too why, as people who most affected by it, we have better understanding on the boundary of fiction affecting reality or how our reality shaping us to believe which one to believe from what we read on our fiction. But the case of condemption that usually happened around here doesnt work like that, isnt? Pretty much a lot people here there more vocal about how reading is the same as supporting it and a part of the crime in rl itself instead of focusing that pretty much the community is just a way enjoy a taboo topic without contribute the real act in rl.

I will disagree, reality doesnt exist inside fiction, fiction is a subsect inside reality called "cultural/media production" that gets born from real humans and consumed by real humans.

It is not harmless, racist caricatures played a huge part in the dehumanization of black bodies and engraved in people s minds that black people were a different kind of humans, that were ugly, didnt feel pain like the "normal humans" and that were okay to be subjugated. To say that it was harmless is at least out of touch and at mosf uneducated.

Even adult women have a difficult time saying when they were sa'd cause of how the lines between sex and actual violence are blurred under patriarchy. Speacially when a partner does it and it is not a stranger on a back alley. So this imaginary about rape as a subcategory of sex does not affect only teenagers minds, it is a social construct that perpetuates this idea on adults too. The idea that male violence is hot and is a form of desirable masculinity didnt appear on our brain by chance. This genre is not popular amoung women by chance.

I dont think people that read it support rape, i think they may look at male violence with pink tinted glasses tho depending on what kind of man does it. Consuming this type of media is proof how smart patriarchy is, rape being a popular genre amoung women just proves how patriarchy is such an interesting effective system to the point it can encapsulate the violence that gender experiences and sell it to them with a pink ribon and they will eat it up. And as I said I am a consumer of it too, speacially love male yandere works.

Yeah if u find the right furry community they are super chill, I agree.

Hooo, wait. This is make a sense now, why would the community always get the highest burn eventho is predominant being enjoyed by female whom have bigger risk on the crime itself, exactly because for majority people would still see us as someone who never take rape seriously just like majority patriarchy view on it, while we, as reader and maker, pretty much already know the risk of the crime itself. And since we are the weakest "link" attacking us would make a sense in their mind despite the different view that the community already have with the majority who just wake up on the fact. Oh, thank u! Finally I understand why!

And the main reason it is not as romanticized irl is cause irl only 1% of rapists will look like a manhwa duke of the north and when they do they get fan clubs and edits. The crime is not the issue inside a look based society, who commits it is more of an issue. People feel more disgust towards an ugly rapist than a hot one, but irl most are ugly so there is not much material to romanticize. That is juts how it is. Men do it too with hot female killers. Lookism is engraved in our society

I disagree with the more burn, male centered mangas with rape as porn are much more criticized. Example redo of a healer. Meanwhile women have the whole yaoi and dark romance industry that has a massive issue with rape. Women are actually offered more leaniance cause they commit less sexual crimes so their interest on it is seem as "defensiless" and men s arent. Same way lolicons are treated in a different way compared to female shotacons.

Can I write it in my language? Its hard to talking and finding the english words.

Aku nggak bermasuk bilang kalau industrial rape itu nggak pernah bermasalah; seperti yang kukatakan hal gituan udah lahir barengan sama patriarki; seperti yang udah lu contohin, adegan marital rape atau coercion itu marak banget dilihat sebagai hal normal karena emang nggak pernah dilihat sebagai rape; sebagaimana kulit hitam karikatur di kartun. Pada beberapa level rape juga dinormalisasikan karena objektivitas pada tubuh wanita itu juga hal biasa buat patriarki, jadi bagi mereka ngelakuin kejahatan sama objek itu kayak lu mukul meja, normal. Bias di kasus ini jelas soal realitas yang mempengaruhi fiksi yang mereka buat, dan aku nggak bakal ngedebatin hal itu. Plus ditambah banyak juga media yang borderline bukan di ranah fiksi lagi, tapi nyangkut ke dokumentasi rl.

Tapi sayangnya bias ginian nyebar ke komunitas yang konsumsi gituan dalam ranah fiksi sekalipun kita punya pandangan view berbeda dari mereka; dan kebanyakan yang mau ngehina dan ngehakimi nggak pernah perduli sama perbedaan itu, sebab bagi mereka kita sama. Kebanyakan nggak peduli kalau media itu ya itu. Cuma media. Seambrek apapun konten rape kalau secara sosial semua paham rape itu salah nggak bakal jadi masalah. Pembunuhan sama genosida itu topik lain yang banyak banget dikomersilkan tapi nggak bermasalah karena ya secara sosial kita udah paham kalau ngebunuh itu salah. Masalahnya kan patriarki nggak bisa mereka usik, terlalu mengakar, akhirnya yang mereka salahin medianya, orang yang konsuminya. Padahal media bawa tema dan perspektif berbeda soal tema itu harusnya nggak salah seberat apapun itu; tapi persepsi gimana masyarakat yang ngemahami itu yang bisa dijudge. Dan di tahap ini aja mereka juga nggak bisa ngejudgenya dengan objektif. Semua disamaratain sebagai pelaku juga.

Uh, sorry for google translate this:

I'm not saying that industrial rape has never been a problem; as I said, it was born alongside patriarchy. As you've already pointed out, scenes of marital rape or coercion are widely seen as normal because they're never seen as rape, just like the black caricatures in cartoons. On some levels, rape is also normalized because the objectification of women's bodies is also commonplace for patriarchy, so for them, committing crimes against objects like you banging a table is normal. The bias in this case is clearly about reality influencing the fiction they create, and I won't argue with that. Furthermore, many media outlets borderline not on fiction anymore, but on real-world documentation.

But unfortunately, this bias spreads to communities that consume such things in the realm of fiction, even if we have different perspectives from them; and most of those who want to insult and judge never care about those differences, because to them, we're the same. Most don't care if media is just that. It's just media. No matter how much rape content there is, if everyone understands that rape is wrong socially, it won't be a problem. Murder and genocide are other topics that are heavily commercialized, but they're not problematic because we already understand that killing is wrong socially. The problem is that they can't disrupt patriarchy; it's too deeply rooted, so they end up blaming the media, the people who consume it. Media, which carries different themes and perspectives on the topic, shouldn't be wrong, no matter how serious it is; but the public's perception of the viewer is what can be judged. And at this stage, they can't judge objectively. Everyone is being treated as the perpetrator.

When u put it that way I agree. I thought the argument about fiction exist in reality is about how ur perspective in fiction is more or less is how u see the world where I see it more how u see and make any fiction or media would always have reality touch inside it. Thats why witch hunting on the media and people who consume it would never work in my case because sanitizing media wont suddenly change the mass believe people have. (Perubahan harus terjadi di masyarakat itu sendiri untuk mengentikan atau mengubah sudut pandang mereka ngelihat suatu topik atau hal) Change must occur in society itself to stop or change their perspective on a topic or thing.

And again. We are talking about fictional media here. Not propaganda or documentary (anything that touching rl domain) media, for those I think Im pretty much would have the same mindset as u here.

Nah in the past maybe thats how it happened when rape dan dark fantasy was only being seen as a mere fantasy that woman couldnt get/do (aka like u said doesnt really deemed rape as important enought topic that being made as fiction as something to talk) but now since society just opened their eyes about the topic itself, we got the same burn for enjoying topic like this. And talk about redo of healer and other bunch of media that has the same theme, its actually have the same ... lvl judgement comparing with the past because exactly the reason u said, its never deemed as important enought topic in the past to be talked about.

Same reason too why lolicon sound problematic now but not shotacon, majority society doesnt think shotacon represent real problem that they need to put notice about; the same reason rape female on male and grooming female on male still rarely seen as ... problematic. Its always tied on the society itself to change their view.

Ah, Im sorry to taking ur time talking with me but Im enjoying our conversation on the topic. Thanks for the input its help me to see new perspective of the problem. Have a nice day!

I disagree cause as I said fiction is not just fiction, but cultural production. Is because we already have that view of rape as a society that this type of media is possible to be comodified in the first place. This would not exist if we didnt have those views

I dont think they blame media, I think they reconize media as a tool to deepen those issues and that it truly is. It can be wrong, media can in fact be wrong in how it deals with certain topics, what it cant be is completely censored. I think you are confusing both. Media is not above right or wrong. If you make a media where a child is constantly sa as a porn plot you are wrong, simple. Doesn't mean you shoild be literally killed or treated as a sex offender

No problem, I actually think we have similar views and even tho we disagree in certain instances you were very polite and mature. We should stop here so we dont get tired. Have a nice day too!!!

I do think they blame the media since I see some couple who said those kind of thing with such a mean way adn somehow its echoed toward other. But oh my God! U finally put the words for the problem I had with how those people see the media as it is! Yes! I have bunch of medias whom I dissagreely principally but at the end of the day its not on the extent that its show the whole blueprint of the maker's moral or principal! Thats why I cant truly see any fictional media as wrong! Thank u! Oh my gooossshhh!

Ayy, u are truly nice! Its nice to know u! ( 〃▽〃)

hey guys this is a good conversation and i love how u guys discuss some heavy topics nicely under my random comment . keep it up guys

I always think "poor op having to get all notifications of two randoms talking " good to know you liked it

Awn nice to know you too ♡♡♡

Whatttt