star

FINALLY! SOMEONE WITH READING COMPREHENSION! Apathy is not kewl people!

She let her daughter die mind you. Burn to death. Felt relieved it wasn't her. Watched her burn and die.
No matter her growth, she let her daughter die i just cant get over that

lyrica was hung not burned, and in the recent chapter it does show that lydia burst into tears and made an attempt to go back, showing her thoughts of being unable to send her child off like that. (though we’ll have to wait for more context to see if she’s actually able to, but i thinkk she does given the direction it’s going in, and it could be how she gets caught and burnt at the stake).

Literally said by OP: GROWTH AND CHANGE. It's not no matter her growth - it matters you just don't understand it and refuses to do so.

You must be fun at parties (●￣(ｴ)￣●)

I am as long as they dont try to kill me

too late get over here

Most children love their abusive mother.

because they see and understand their struggle. it obviously doesn’t make the parents actions okay, and had lydia not changed this should’ve been heavily discouraged, but lydia DID change, that’s the point.

“See and understand their struggle” This is so completely wrong holy shit, it’s cause of their attachment, bonding, and their development. In their eyes, abuse is normal and that makes them confused. They tend to justify the abuse and blame themselves, because they can’t compute the idea of their parent simply hating them for existing.

No amount of “struggle” ever justifies abuse. You can argue that she changed or whatever, but nothing justifies what she did to her daughter.

you make a pretty great point, but it depends on the case. and in my personal experience, and the experience represented by lyrica, she’s shown to understand her mothers struggle and the reason behind her actions and love her despite it, even if nothing reasoning could justify it.

did you read my response? i never said it her struggle justifies her actions, neither does changing for the better. however as a child that loves and understands her parent, its lyrica’s choice to forgive her. as a person who relates to lyrica’s abuse and the love of their parent in spite of it, its infuriating to see people being unable to accept it and the second chance given to the mother. as a story about redemption, it might just not be for you.

to add, people who live by this strict moral code for others with no consideration for nuances or complexities are typically people who have never experienced true rock bottom and extreme struggle themselves. things aren’t black and white in the world.

a starving person isn’t concerned with the ethical ramifications of stealing from a small, struggling business, their focus is on survival.

none of it truly excuses it or justifies it, but it allows for compassion and understanding.

in any case what’s important is how they move going forward, and if they’re putting the work into changing. that doesn’t mean that you NEED to forgive them obviously, but this is representative of the people who do forgive. cutting contact and wishing hell on them isn’t the only “correct” option.

Abuse will never receive compassion or understanding from me, regardless of what someone has endured. Harming a child is an intentional act; it cannot be accidental. Comparing this to a starving person stealing is not even remotely comparable. Neither alcoholism nor past trauma would be accepted as a defence in the court of law for child abuse.

It also doesn’t “depend on the case.” This manhwa is very realistic in showing that children can still love and remain attached to abusive parents; that’s a well-documented psychological reality. What isn’t realistic is framing the abuse as the result of the parents “struggle” and expecting a child like Lyrica to understand or accept that reasoning. Children don’t contextualize abuse through adult explanations like stress or hardship; they lack the cognitive and emotional distance for that. Instead, they tend to internalize blame, normalize the behavior, or remain attached out of dependency. Using “struggle” as an explanation shifts responsibility away from the abuser in a way a child would not realistically process.

I mean, you do you, it was just ironic to me seeing the whole “Lyrica would punt you for saying she deserves better” take, when that reaction is actually very common among abused children, especially toward their mothers. They often defend them, even when they’ve been harmed. The Gabriel Fernandez case is a well-known example of this, where he continued to blame his father rather than his mother despite severe abuse. It’s a tragic but very real pattern.

"where he continued to blame his father rather than his mother despite severe abuse from both sides."

Woops, just a correction. Made it seem like just the mother was abusive; there's a reason the stepdad was sent to death row.

lyrica died loving her mother dearly until she was older, so because of that your point just ultimately falls flat. it’s the case for younger children.

“stealing is an intentional act, it cannot be accidental, regardless of what someone endured.” see how these words could easily be applied to what you claim isn’t comparable?

i’m making the comparison because lyrica was doing what she could to survive after her rock bottom, it’s not a perfect analogy, but it’s still the general idea, lydia was 16 when she had lyrica. to add, lydia has been implied to have never physically harmed lyrica. in the chapter where you see lyrica flinch, it’s because she’s reminded of the apartment owner, you can see his faint image drawn there. that means that all of her mothers outbursts while drunk were senseless rambling from someone struggling, and she slowly got more and more corrupted when nobles began to groom her. the court of law is not a perfect system so this is just a dumb statement, a starving person would still go to jail for stealing from the wrong person.

yes it does depend on the case, and as an example of it, you cannot just dismiss my experiences because you personally don’t agree.

my aunt beat me in high stress situations and her way of teaching was to degrade me until i got it right, she has also publicly shamed me in school in front of friends on multiple occasions. you’re right that a kid will not understand every single layer, but they understand the general idea. children aren’t as stupid as you think, they pick up on these things. her beating me and degrading me will never be excused or justified, but i was able to forgive her because i personally witnessed how she would sacrifice herself to the point of being thin in order to feed us.
in mexico this cycle goes back only more extreme.

that said i didnt just sit and accept it most times either, i fought with her a lot growing up because of it.

if my aunt who beat me came to me one day and heavily repented, then single-handedly turned me into the richest spoiled little girl in the planet, and CONTINUED to change after recognizing that meeting materialistic needs isn’t enough so we can be happy, and some jackass came buzzing in my ear with “fuck her! you deserve better! who cares if she was struggling! you should’ve been born with someone perfect who loved you *correctly* from the start!”, then 6 year old me would’ve still punted you. it’s a spit in the face to the collective struggle we faced and the immeasurable strength needed on both ends to overcome them and be happy together.


(i may have gotten personally heated in this so just ignore that, you have a right to your own opinion and i respect a lot of your points. they were very informative and gave me a thoughtful perspective that i appreciate, i’ll be sure to check out the case you mentioned for deeper understanding as well!)

oh my god lydia is the mothers name, sorry if i accidentally put lyrica instead, i hope it isn’t too confusing.

oh my god Lydia is the mothers name, sorry if i accidentally put Lyrica’s name instead, i hope it isn’t too confusing.

It doesn't fall flat unless she were a grown woman, which also doesn't matter because this happens in teens and adulthood. Yes, again, stealing is not remotely comparable to child abuse (in my opinion). No one said the court of law is perfect; I'm just pointing out it's not a viable excuse, pretty much anywhere. From my understanding, and I’m not even sure how old she is now, she’s been defending her mother from the very beginning. The manhwa started when she was around eight, I think. That was my point: it’s a no-brainer that she would defend her mother simply because that’s her mom. That reaction from a child so young comes from familiarity, self-blame, and guilt shaped by the verbal abuse, not from genuine understanding or justification of "struggle".

This isn’t about forgiveness on Lyrica’s part. If, as an adult or older teen, Lyrica, or anyone else, chooses to forgive their abusive parents, that’s their decision, and I’m not here to argue with it. When speaking about forgiveness, I was talking about my opinion. And on the question of intent, I’m not sure if you’re arguing against it or not, but in my view, the mother’s constant blaming of Lyrica for her hardships shows clear intent. She wanted Lyrica to feel hurt and responsible for what she was going through. That repeated behavior forms a clear pattern of abuse, used specifically to demean and emotionally harm a child. And a child will always deserve better; teachers, other family members, and even police officers will say that, because a child didn’t ask to be brought into this world or to be treated that way. This case is different since it has a regression or whatever it's called, so no one will call out the mother cause no one knows what happened since it was a past life. I don't even remember if Lyrica remembers her past life.

"then 6 year old me would’ve still punted you. it’s a spit in the face to the collective struggle we faced and the immeasurable strength needed on both ends to overcome them and be happy together." Not sure what this means, but it's not a 6 year old's job to overcome anything, just the parents. If anything, they would just need to overcome the trauma they faced when they got older.

I mean, honestly, it's fine to get heated; child abuse is a serious topic. We have both seen, experienced, and studied different things in our lives through various cases that shape our views.

for the last point about 6 yr old me i realized it wasn’t relevant after i put it too lol sorry, i guess it would hold more weight if i said that as an adult, im able to sympathize with why they acted the way they did towards me, but obv its still two different cases.

you made a lot of great points, and there’s even characteristics of it displayed on lyrica’s part. it was heartbreaking to see and i find myself relating to her when it comes to my mother. lyrica essentially see’s her mother as her baby that she must take care of and protect, resulting in a lot of heavy responsibility on her part and self blame, plus the belief that if her mother no longer need her (her “caretaker) then she’d get tossed out. i also didn’t mean to invalidate the abuse lyrica faced bc mental and emotional abuse are important too, just two different extremes, so i felt the need to point it out.

her mom regressing didn’t undo any abuse she already gave lyrica, thus she’s sitting with the consequences of how deeply she traumatized the one person in the world who she learned to love and loves her back unconditionally. it’s honestly a tragic story, but i can’t dismiss your criticisms, you’re right about a lot. the mom can change and try to make up for a lot, but it’s normal to feel annoyed by the fact that no one is actually holding her accountable for her past. the only one who can is lyrica and she’s a child currently so i get your point.

to sum up we’re basically arguing back and forth about her actions not being excused, which i agree with, but i just say that it doesn’t make her immune from sympathy and understanding. in my teen years, due to abuse, i also verbally and emotionally abused my little brother because he’s a boy who was clingy to me and my male cousin at the time was assaulting me. i think that’s why i can be a little more understanding to lydia who was in her teens and had been met with constant struggle that deteriorated her mental state.

personally what snapped me out of that was the bojack horseman line that claimed your issue isn’t your trauma, or your addiction, or your childhood, but who you’re choosing to be despite it. so if you’re lashing out and a piece of shit, then you’re just a piece of shit.

thinking back on it all, i get annoyed when people discourage sympathy and understanding to the people who are actively fighting themselves, and the unhealthy survival mechanisms that have protected them, in order to change for the better, because that shit is not easy. it *is* easy to say they should’ve been perfect from the start, or that a saint would’ve done better in those circumstances, but it’s a different story navigating that war and struggle all by yourself. it was kinda what my comment is overall about, even if it probably wasn’t the best way to express it bc you made great points about lyrica’s developmental stage and all.

oh and thank you again for that last part, you’re completely right.

I can’t talk cause I came in pretty heated myself I cursed for no reason. But yeah ur right, the ability to change is a huge aspect of the story, and clearly it’s not for me.