Do you know where I can read it because now I really want to know this Dominic guy and why we can hate him and Julia of course. Because for sometime now I felt that everyone is If you can manhwas is a victim and I need someone to blame for it
Good points, but leaving everything aside, I'd still blame Ashley and Koi. (Totally personal opinion no offense) At the end of the day, their children shouldn't have been the ones paying the price for their trauma. The kids didn't deserve any of it. And ofc neither did Ashley and Koi, but who brought those children into this world? The parents did. You can't defend Ashley's treatment of his Alpha children simply because he has past trauma. Trauma explains behavior, it doesn't justify hurting innocent people. No one has the right to pass their trauma onto others, especially not their own children. This is one of the biggest reasons why many people choose not to have kids. If you know you're carrying trauma that could seriously affect the way you raise a child, then that's something you have to deal with. It's not fair to bring children into the world and expect them to live with the consequences of wounds they never caused. I know Ashley acknowledges that he was a terrible parent, and I respect that. I also understand that both of them were genuinely trying their best. But imo "trying your best" isn't always enough when it comes to parenting. Children aren't experiments where you learn through trial and error. They're living human beings whose entire lives are shaped by how they're raised. And if you ask me how they were supposed to stop Koi from getting pregnant, honestly, I don't have an answer. That's something they should've figured out themselves before more children were brought into the world. I understand Ashley's brain damage made things incredibly complicated, and Koi's trauma made abortion impossible for him. Those are tragic circumstances, but they don't erase the responsibility that comes with having children.
You asked how people can expect anything from Ashley and Koi when they're both victims of abuse. My answer is because they're parents. The moment you bring another life into the world, people are going to expect more from you. That's the responsibility that comes with becoming a parent. Their past explains why they struggle, but it doesn't make it fair for their children to suffer because of it. You can't put a stamp on every bad outcome with "but look at their past" because their past is their burden. It shouldn't become their children's burden too, and not everyone else's who ends up becoming a victim of the consequences. Their children didn't choose to inherit those burdens, and neither did the people who later had to deal with the trauma and dysfunction that resulted from how those children were raised.
And honestly, people have every right to be angry. (That said, I do agree that a lot of manhwa readers can be incredibly toxic.) Put yourself in Chase's shoes for a moment. Imagine being told that you "RAPED" a dog, living with that guilt and psychological trauma every single day, only to later find out it was all a lie. Sure, you'd feel relieved once the truth came out, but relief doesn't erase the damage. The psychological trauma would already be there. People may defend Greyson by saying he couldn't properly feel or understand emotions, and I understand that. But that doesn't change the impact of what he did. Whether someone acts out of trauma, emotional impairment, or an inability to understand emotions, it still doesn't make it okay to make someone else suffer because of it. An explanation helps us understand why something happened, but it /doesn't/ erase the consequences. And just because the Miller kids struggle to feel or express emotions doesn't mean they don't get hurt or don't experience pain both physically and psychologically. They may process emotions differently, but they're still human. They can still be traumatized, and they can still suffer. What Chase went through was horrific, and Greyson shouldn't be excused for that. Greyson's condition may explain his actions, but it doesn't undo the psychological damage Chase was forced to live with for years.
Again, I'm not trying to villainize or defend anyone. But if we're being honest, the parents have to bear responsibility for their children's suffering. And it doesn't stop there, their parenting also affected everyone around those children. The kids themselves may not even realize how dysfunctional their lives are because that's all they've ever known. To them, it's normal. They might not even care or understand the extent of it. But from a third-person perspective, it's genuinely heartbreaking to see how much damage it caused, not just within the family but to everyone who became involved with them.
At the same time, imo i think that's exactly what makes Zig's writing so compelling. The characters aren't simply good or evil. They're deeply flawed, shaped by trauma, and their choices create ripple effects that impact everyone around them. But understanding why they became who they are doesn't mean we can't hold them accountable for the people they hurt.
For Dominic and Juliet’s story read here:
https://oceanstale.com/eat-me-up-if-you-can/emu-1/
For Ashley and Koi story read here: Read it after Dominic and Juliet. You’ll get where the root of the madness in that family came from. But at some point if it weren’t for Dominic and Juliet being a bad parent Ashley wouldn’t have met Koi. Imagine asking your own son to kill you and take the punishment from Dominic after Ashley granted Juliet’s wish to kill him. Ashley never felt parental love. He knew from the start that his own existence is just a reminder of his father’s power over Juliet. He’s like he’s his trophy son. The evidence that Dominic and Juliet is one with him. Dominic is also why Koi and Ashley broke up, the very reason why Ashley decided to hurt himself which resulted to his brain damage. The reason why he can no longer feel emotions except for Koi. Ashley is far from how he used to be when he stil feels emotions.
Ashley and Koi story link is here:
https://cherrymist.cafe/chapter/lmuc-ch-1/
Then what more do you want from them? They are with them every step of the way, they seek professional help, Koi personally tends to them. Even after the incident Ashley lets him as long as Ashley is with him. Koi keeps telling them what’s wrong from right. Ashley still have security team
Guarding them and their families even after all his children have spouses and kids of their own. He keeps them away from harm and from Jail. Who helped Nathaniel when he killed someone? Who keeps Chase away from Jail after all his scandals. They are full adults. Parents should no longer be responsible for their full grown ass adult children wiho has children of their own and yet despite that he and Koi still look after them.
Can you call the parents of psychopaths who killed innocent people and yet grew up in a loving home then? Their children are categorized as that. They don’t feel guilt killing. They know it’s wrong but the essence of why it is wrong is what they don’t know. You can’t always blame it on the parents. Just recently there’s a mass shooting in the country where I live. The children who shoot students grew up in a loving family. Yet the kids didn’t exhibit any guilt nor remorse for what they did. There’s only so much a parent could give and teach their young ones.
You are right. You've forgotten to put how Chase also traumatized others. It's a chain reaction.
So it's disappointing how Kiss me if you can didn't play with Chase's character more. It focused on Joshua more that we didn't see any redemption and character development. (As far as the novel is concern.) It looked like his trauma was used for excusing his violent assaults because they were completely forgotten after, until it was needed for the plot again.
Thanks you so much. Only from its descriptions I can tell that the story will be more tragic compare to others
For me, what's lacking was that in their children's younger days, the parents used the wrong method. The earlier years are whats the most important stage you could be with a child in every step of the way. When they gave up the clinical way, they could have thought of other methods. The not rich solutions, like having actual conversations with their children, dedicating time for them. Grayson in ch17 do not recognize Dane's emotion. This was proof. Why? In all his life, you mean no one showed that expression for him? No one empathized for him, not one family member.
I am not blaming all of these to the parents though, it's just that they also have responsibility for a child's growth. Sometimes, a loving family seen on the outside don't mean their dynamics inside the house was also great. It often comes down on the parenting ways and methods.
Just curious about something: "Whether someone acts out of trauma, emotional impairment, or an inability to understand emotions, it still doesn't make it okay to make someone else suffer because of it." The doesn't make it okay phrase presumes that the person was "making someone suffer" in the sense of knowingly doing something to them. Which wasn't the case for Grayson. Idt anyone is saying that Grayson's condition allows him to harm others. It's just that the carelessness and the situations led to the things that happened. I believe Grayson could have been stopped if the parents would have paid a little more attention. At the same time I don't completely blame Ash and Koi either. I blame the choices they made. I do knw just like grayson, they didn't do anything deliberately. Forgiving someone as a reader when we know that non of them caused harm to others intentionally doesn't mean that the problems they caused will be erased. Explaining the situation, forgiving their actions and holding them responsible for it, all are three different statements and some ppl are trying to put them in one statement which is absurd here.
When it will come to Chase's trauma, Grayson will always be responsible for it. When it will come to grayson, Ashley and Koi will be responsible for it. When it will come to Ash n koi, Dominic and Juliet will be responsible for it.
Also some ppl often foget that chase's victim list is way longer than the rest of the Millers. So he will always be responsible for all those 100+ people's sufferings but it doesn't matter to some as they aren't imp character.
I wanted to point this out too earlier. The way it was phrased was deliberately brushing off the psychological conditions as something that could be controlled. Like there's an on and off switch to it. 'I should not make anyone suffer so I must turn off my alexithymia'.
Not to mention Chase's victims are all results of intentional harm unlike other Millers
Exactly, i mean the person didn't even knw that they are causing harm to others. The moment he realised that all he has done is harming others he went to apologise to every single person. That says enough abt Grayson
I think we're kind of talking past each other here, and that's probably because I didn't explain my point very well, I apologise for that.
I wasn't trying to say Grayson is to blame for having trauma or emotional impairment, and I definitely wasn't trying to ignore everything Chase did. I only brought Grayson up as an example because I was talking about how trauma can still end up hurting other people, not because I think he deserves all the blame. Chase is responsible for his own actions, and I'm not excusing that.
My point has always been that the responsibility starts with Ashley and Koi. I understand why Ashley struggled with some of his children. He hated the parts of himself that reminded him of his father, and unfortunately that affected the children who resembled him. I genuinely sympathize with him. But those children didn't choose to look like him, they didn't choose to inherit his condition, and they shouldn't have had to carry the consequences of trauma they had no part in. That's why I don't think they should've had children.
And also I don't think the psychopath comparison really fits here because I'm talking about foreseeable risk. In most cases, parents have no reason to expect their child will grow up that way. Here, Ashley and Koi already knew there was a serious possibility that Ashley's condition and their unresolved trauma could affect their future children. They didn't know exactly how things would turn out, but they knew there was a real risk before those children were even born. That's the difference I'm trying to point out.
I'm also not saying Ashley and Koi are evil or that they deserved what happened. I don't believe that at all. I think they genuinely tried to help them once they were here. My disagreement is with the decision that came before that.
And when I said "making someone suffer," I wasn't talking about intentional harm. I meant causing harm, whether it's intentional or not. Someone can unintentionally hurt others because of trauma or emotional impairment. Understanding why it happened doesn't erase the fact that someone else was still hurt. I think both of those things can be true at the same time. I also don't think responsibility has to belong to just one person. Chase is responsible for his own choices. Grayson is responsible for the harm he directly caused. But Ashley and Koi are also responsible for the decision to bring children into a situation where they already knew there were significant risks. Those aren't mutually exclusive.
And I think that's the part that sometimes gets overlooked. Ashley and Koi's children are victims too, but so are the people who were hurt by them. They didn't choose to be part of that cycle either.
Though yeah when you asked "What more do you want Ashley and Koi to do?" I'd honestly say, nothing. Once the children were born, I think they had a responsibility to love them, protect them, and get them whatever help they could. From what we've seen, they genuinely tried. But as I said before, my issue is with the decision that came before any of that.
All of this is just my personal opinion, but regardless of how the Miller kids turned out, I think it ultimately comes back to Ashley and Koi's decision to have children despite knowing there were significant risks. Part of why I feel so strongly about this is because it hits close to home for me. Personally, if I knew there was a significant risk that my own trauma or condition could seriously affect my future child, I don't think I could justify taking that chance. That's just where I stand, and it's why I see the situation the way I do.
That makes it clear..I agree with your point here.
Your wording before actually changed the meaning of your points. It's good that we cleared that up now.
I have been Zig’s novels reader for a long time and I have read each and every novel Zig has. The novel community is healthy in away so when the novel start getting adaptations I was really happy and excited. But one novel after another the readers are getting more toxic than ever. In Kiss Me If You Can, many people throw hate at Greyson specifically the none novel teaders. I tried to explain why Greyson was like that and still no one listened. So when the novel got an adaptation, majority now understand what I mean back then but now they start villainizing Ashley and Koi, so I was like this time to read all novels because there’s a clear explanation in everything. The narative and emotions shifts in each stories that’s how Zig writes his or her novels. You have to just have a wider understanding to each one. I wouldn’t mind if they all hate Dominic and Juliet because those two deserves it.
Now, many expects a lot from Koi and Ashley but how can you expect those two when both are victims of abuse? Ashley was emotionally and psychologically abused by his father, Koi was battered by his father. Neither had a sibling to look after. When Ashley fell for Koi he had settled with the thought they will grow old just the two of them because they both thought Koi was a Beta.
Second when the chance to be together and build a family came to them a lot of damaged was already done. Ashley already lost all his emotions. (Someone argued to me why in 30 years Greyson only felt emotions to Dane and assumed that his parents didn’t try. The concept is the same for Ashley. Ashley can’t feel emotions to others, he lost it when his brain had damaged. The only person who can make him feel emotions is Koi.) It is hard to tell all of these because it doesn’t just end there. About people blaming Koi why they didn’t stopped at 3. They didn’t know that Ashley’s brain damage is so extensive that he can no longer control fertilization and he can’t even get a vasectomy. Koi can’t have abortion because he has trauma when it comes to life because he still blames himself for his brother’s death. That’s why I keep telling people to read the novel. Because it says there why Ashley was not fond of his Alpha children who looks like him. Ashley doesn’t even like his own face nor the fact he’s a dominant alpha. He despises it all because he looks so much like Dominic and his father’s scent he hated is the same as him. There are a lot of things that are not being said in one novel. You have to read everything.