I knew the translaters were trolling us in the first few pages after the "no homo" line from the uke's brother. It was damn hilarious lol
I thought the very second line is the most obvious
I see a lot of complaints of hosik being treated as a women, and my question is why is that a bad thing? Why is the term wife or mother is looked at negetively? Internalized misogyny anyone? If a women gets treated like a man or get's terms associated with males , no one will complain. No one will even raise an issue about it. but female terms are insulting or problematic. Why? This is an mpreg story. Hosik is indeed a mother. He gave birth. Unless you look down mothers and you are mysogynistic, I see no reason why this should be an issue.
I think it's not really about hidden misogyny or anything. It's more about why does in a gay relationship must there be a husband and a wife role or something. Can't there be just two husbands? or "he's a bottom so he's the female in the relationship". when it should just, "he just likes or prefers taking it rather than giving it". It's also about how many people almost always assume that all gay men became gay because they wanted to become a female when in fact some are just men who loves men.
"Are you saying it's bad to be treated like a female?"
No, it's just that it's not what the person wanted. There are gay men who wanted to be treated like a female and there gay men who want to be treated like a male. It's just that Hosik is in the latter. It's that simple.
"Why is the term wife or mother is looked at negetively? Internalized misogyny anyone?"
Again because it's not about misogyny but because Hosik is still a man and wants to be treated like one. He didn't say that he wanted to be treated like a female just because he did a thing only females can do i.e. giving birth. If he was treated like a female just because he gave birth then isn't that some sort of sexism?
"If a women gets treated like a man or get's terms associated with males , no one will complain. No one will even raise an issue about it. but female terms are insulting or problematic."
I would just like to say that never say anything in absolutes. If that were indeed true then I would like you to provide me with at least three or five instances where the female character in a yaoi or yuri works has been associated with male terms or get treated like a man in a negative way.
"Unless you look down mothers and you are mysogynistic, I see no reason why this should be an issue."
You see you just can't make these statements as if they are the only true reason. Some people dislike Hosik being treated as a female not because they hate mothers or are just misogynistic. It's like when people say they don't like to date trans and they always immediately assume that it's because they are transphobic when in fact the reason could be that trans are just not their preference. Yet people still prefer it's because they hate trans.
That particular sentence of yours really irked me because I love my mother and she is one of the most important person in my life and one of my goals in life is to be successful enough to make her life as comfortable as possible until the day she dies.
bro go write your paragraph somewhere else lmaoo
essay*
^agree
^agree
Yes thank you for explaining properly I wish more people could see this because it’s really insightful. I love your explanation :)))
(づ￣ ³￣)づ Thanks.
Thank you too for spending your time reading it. ( ˘ ³˘)
Where do I even begin with your bullshit argument? The entire essay that you wrote drawing false equivalencies to justify the misogyny is giving me a headache. But let's try anyway.
"Can't there be just two husbands? or "he's a bottom so he's the female in the relationship". when it should just, "he just likes or prefers taking it rather than giving it". Again, what's wrong with being associated with female? Even if being a bottom is associated with the female role, why is it looked down upon? It's no secret that there is a substantial amount of misogyny in the gay community. Feminine gays are looked down upon because of their feminine traits or personalities. To find it insulting to be associated with females, what could be the reason if it's not misogyny? Nobody is calling Hosik a women, he might be a called a wife or mother, but no one called him a women. While those titles are associated with females, it doesn't mean they have to be strictly restricted to women. They all are aware he is a man. And they try to accommodate accordingly. You might wanna question yourself, why you are so adamant about the husband title. I don't care what Hosik get's called. He could be called a saltine cracker for all i care. But why get so butthurt about being called female terms? What's so bad about them?
"There are gay men who wanted to be treated like a female and there gay men who want to be treated like a male. It's just that Hosik is in the latter. It's that simple."
Hosik might have been uncomfortable with it in the beginning, but he has since then come to terms with it. He doesn't raise an issue anymore, so why are you lot? And his problem with it might have come from how patriarchal Korea is. He might have been misogynistic himself.
"He didn't say that he wanted to be treated like a female just because he did a thing only females can do i.e. giving birth. If he was treated like a female just because he gave birth then isn't that some sort of sexism" It is a bit sexist, but you forget that in their universe male pregnancy is relatively new. So the fact it is still being associated with female only trait is understandable. And this is Korea we are talking about, they are dealing with it the best that they can. The fact they were able to get married without hiding Hosik's sex is amazing i would say. Everyone knows Hosik is a man, and he is not even forced to act as a women aside from the wedding day. Seungbae and his parents keep him out of family traditions so that he won't be uncomfortable. They are trying, change doesn't happen overnight, it takes decades.
"I would like you to provide me with at least three or five instances where the female character in a yaoi or yuri works has been associated with male terms or get treated like a man in a negative way." What even is this? How does this make sense to you? First of all, I don't read yuri. Second, 'get treated like a man in a negative way', you just confirmed what i said in this line. That women associated with male traits are not looked down upon. Infact they are considered cool. Teenage girls acting like tomboys because they are not like other girls, this is not something that's considered negative. But get a boy to act like a girl and all hell breaks loose. What point were you even trying to make?
I won't even address that trans argument because it has nothing to with what i said. And what I said irked you because you are misogynistic. I don't care if you are a male or female, because both sexes can be misogynistic. And the fact that you just pulled your mom in your argument like ''I can't be racist because I have black friends' just made me cringe. If I wasn't sure about your misogyny before, inclusion of your mother solidified it. Even the most mysogynistic person is kind towards their mother if they had a normal upbringing. You loving your mother proves nothing.
*Sighs
The way you started your counter-argument/counter-essay or something clearly shows what type of person I'm dealing with and you're clearly the type who are vehement with their points and will flat-out reject anything that opposes it but I'll try my best to respond back anyway.
"Again, what's wrong with being associated with female? Even if being a bottom is associated with the female role, why is it looked down upon?"
Uhh, nothing? I didn't even say it was looked down upon. My point which you clearly missed is that there are gay bottom men who wants to be still be associated with being a male. Now assuming/forcing them to be associated with the female role just because they bottom is where we have the issue. Just because someone doesn't want to be associated with being a female it doesn't always exactly mean they are being misogynistic, it's just preferences. Something like this qoute "Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I hate you".
"Hosik might have been uncomfortable with it in the beginning, but he has since then come to terms with it. He doesn't raise an issue anymore, so why are you lot? And his problem with it might have come from how patriarchal Korea is."
If I'm not mistaken, Hosik's issue was more on the pregnancy part and not on the female association part.
"He might have been misogynistic himself."
How the heck did he even become misogynistic?
"What even is this? How does this make sense to you?"
That was an honest mistake on my part. I thought you were negatively talking about females acting manly roles when you meant the opposite. But I would like to make something clear about this part:
"That women associated with male traits are not looked down upon. Infact they are considered cool. Teenage girls acting like tomboys because they are not like other girls, this is not something that's considered negative. But get a boy to act like a girl and all hell breaks loose."
It's not misogyny my dear, it's toxic masculinity. Do you think women who have manly traits are considered cool just because they have manly traits? No, they are considered cool because they are WOMEN who have manly traits. Why do you ask males who have womanly traits are usually disliked? It's not because they have womanly traits but because they are MEN who have womanly traits.
"I won't even address that trans argument because it has nothing to with what i said."
I admit that that was kinda careless of me but the point I was trying to makes was, just because someone doesn't like/agree with something, it's not always because they hate it. The reason why I said that because the whole point of what you said was "They hate Hosik being treated or associated with a female traits so it must be misogyny".
"And what I said irked you because you are misogynistic. I don't care if you are a male or female, because both sexes can be misogynistic. And the fact that you just pulled your mom in your argument like ''I can't be racist because I have black friends' just made me cringe. If I wasn't sure about your misogyny before, inclusion of your mother solidified it. Even the most mysogynistic person is kind towards their mother if they had a normal upbringing. You loving your mother proves nothing."
Of course you're definitely right that I'm misogynistic. You, a completely random person from god who knows where who have only exchanged a few paragraphs with me can definitely and with absolute certainty conclude that I'm a misogynist. Guess I can't argue with that because saying that all of my siblings are female and that most of my friends are females can just be seen as an attempt of an "I have black friends so I'm not rascist" kind of thing, so kudos to you for exposing a misogynist. I guess I better start acting like a misogynist so I won't fail your expectations.
Sighs
The way you started your counter-argument/counter-essay or something clearly shows what type of person I'm dealing with and you're clearly the type who are vehement with their points and will flat-out reject anything that opposes it.
Right back at you. I am not interested in reading your drivel trying to justify your misogyny and how I have misunderstood you. Move along buddy.
Likewise.
lmaoo you literally just missed the point, nobody is getting misogynistic nor they are denying he is a mother, the problem is being treated as something you are not people not seeing you as you are, people just don't like the fact hosik is getting treated and labeled as a woman because he's a man, trans people deal with that similar thing daily so you writing this off as misogyny is kinda not cool bro. people aren't mad because of him being treated as a "woman" it's because they aren't treating him as a "man", also trans rights have a nice day
i think you’re forgetting one important thing here. these webtoons are aimed towards a female audience and probably written by a female too (most of them, at least). it’s not that being associated with a female as a man is a bad thing, it’s just that people assign the male and female roles to a gay couple as if to somehow make sense of it. rather than exploring a new dynamic, they pick the feminine looking guy to be the woman, the girlfriend, the bottom, the wife etc. and of course there will be the masculine counterpart who’s the dom boyfriend. it’s stereotypical.
LOL IKR
I wish there was an upvote option to your commentary
I mean like, the reason I wrote the paragraph in the first place is in here so why should I write it somewhere else? Like ???
people be sleepin on the truth sis ╮(￣▽￣)╭
Ya'll people are bunch of puritans that care more about fictional people than real people, that's the truth. Y'all just want to have pedestal above people with yall fake high morality. If you're worried about lgbt like don't bash the real ones. Most lgbt read this kind of stuff to explore things that actually happened to them because repression is worse. It's exploring dark themes with fictional characters without no one really getting hurt irl. But yeah, yall just come herr to bully people over what they read as if this niche comic had the same exposure as some Disney movie. People are smart enough to know what's good and bad stop treating us like idiots
Uhhuh, how? How did you even come with this part "Ya'll people are bunch of puritans that care more about fictional people than real people, that's the truth." Like what?
"If you're worried about lgbt like don't bash the real ones."
Who's bashing who now?
"But yeah, yall just come herr to bully people over what they read as if this niche comic had the same exposure as some Disney movie."
You're losing me bud.
"People are smart enough to know what's good and bad stop treating us like idiots "
Your words, not ours. No one's calling anyone an idiot here.
Stop acting dumb like you don't know the context anymore. Anyways, Next.
Stop being unnecessarily aggressive. I'm not acting, I'm confused by your previous comment because it seems to me like you're the who doesn't know the context and is just chiming in, acting like an SJW/WhiteKnight whose supposed "bravery" or sense of righteousness is only brought upon by the veil of anonymity of the internet. The same thing can be said to me too but at least I try to properly, not perfectly, explain my opinions and refrain as much as possible from being sarcastic and aggressive when doing so.
someone: says a word
YaoiIsLife: writes a whole paragraph about the word
YaoiIsLife: Writes a paragraph as a response since some things can't be explained by just a one-word response.
kag: clearly disagreeing with YaoiIsLife, writes a response/commentary in a succinct manner because they are kewl and is apparently allergic by paragraphs.
I mean like seriously if you're going to burn me, at least don't exaggerate stuff.
If you're really THAT confused that you lost track of the context of the conversation... I don't know what else to tell you. The moment you started saying "huh lol what are you saying" I knew the conversation was over. When you had nothing else other than act dumb and act like a victim, because someone is giving you a counter argument, it just felt like you couldn't take different opinions so you resort to acting like you don't know what's going on anymore.
I promise you, the gays you're trying to protect are the ones you're attacking, many who read this are some sort of lgbt and find this stuff as a way to explore emotions as an art form. And yes, this content is not fit for everyone because not everyone needs this or just doesn't have the maturity level. So if this isn't for you, then no is forcing you, it's like eating something you know you're allergic to and blaming the food maker.
I don't want to make hugeass paraphraphs every time a random person in the internet doesn't get it, but, it's not fair for translators or other fans, again mostly likely lgbt people—having randos shitting on their form of expression, so this must he said.
The only people that actually make hurtful stereotypes don't even go to these sites, they are already ignorant and don't need a niche comic like this to feed their lack of empathy.
The fiction affects reality is an argument so abused, like... Some people watch Steven Universe, which has positive messages right??? , and sometimes it's those people that watch those wholesome shows who are telling others to kill themselves because they don't ship the same thing. So "fiction affects reality" card is only convenient to those who want to bully others.
Excuse me, I'm not confused because I lost track of the context, I'm confused by YOUR previous comments that seemed like it didn't relate to the context because this was the original context that sparked these arguments:
"People hated the fact that Hosik, a man, is being treated like a female.
Some people dislike that because it seemed misogynistic. Like it's cool for a female character to have male qualities but it's bad if a man has female or is related to female characters.
I expressed my opinion on how it wasn't misogynistic but rather it's more like how some people still put a straight couple roles in a homosexual couple and that some people dislike that fact."
That's basically what's this is all about and here you are, spouting nonsense about bullying, playing victim and whatnot.
"When you had nothing else other than act dumb and act like a victim, because someone is giving you a counter argument, it just felt like you couldn't take different opinions so you resort to acting like you don't know what's going on anymore."
I think you're the one getting confused here. Again, I was only confused by your comments and no one else's for reasons I have already mentioned before.
I don't really get it why you're bringing Steven Universe here now and talking about people killing themselves. I'm really not that sure either where you're coming from because the only point I was trying to make was and basically the center topic for these arguments was about misogyny and how some people dislike putting a straight couple roles in a homosexual couple.
*lgbt person explains why they like this stuff*
"I DON'T GET THE CONTEXT IM SOFT BABY"
Lmao why is being girly or motherly bad. First you tell gay people they can be what they want but god forbid they chose a traditional life. You said so yourself, not everyone is into it. But some people do, a lot of the readers here do. And you're not respecting that but demand respect. So YES, we're going to be pissed off.
You're really frustrating to talk to. Like
[*lgbt person explains why they like this stuff*
"I DON'T GET THE CONTEXT IM SOFT BABY"]
Are you for real??? Seriously??? I don't give a shit what you like or dislike.
"Lmao why is being girly or motherly bad. First you tell gay people they can be what they want but god forbid they chose a traditional life."
When did I ever say something like "gay poeple can't choose traditional lives"? Like did you even read the stuff I said here? Because you really should.
"You said so yourself, not everyone is into it. But some people do, a lot of the readers here do. "
Again, I don't give a shit what you like. What I didn't like is that when people expressed that they dislike it when some people "force" straight roles in a gay couple, in this case, being a mother/female, people immediately assumed that it's because of misogynism when it's not always the case. That was basically the focus of these arguments. I don't get the context because I'm a baby? You were spouting stuff about bullying and bashing the LGBT's, that's was what I didn't understand. Oh, and also,
" And you're not respecting that but demand respect. So YES, we're going to be pissed off."
The same can be said to you you know and you're clearly not being respectful yourself. You're the one here "Lmaoing" the hell out of stuff and calling people names.
"You're really frustrating to talk to. Like" Did you stomp your feet as you said this? My god are you some 16 year old.
And you say "I don't give a shit what you like or dislike." twice, but we gotta cater to YOU personally, lmao ok. Anyways thank you so much for defending gay people I guess you only care about them when it's what convenient to you
Who cares what lgbt actually want, like... we're wrong, we don't know what we're getting into, thanks O saviour
"Did you stomp your feet as you said this? My god are you some 16 year old."
Hmm, honestly, your entire reply sounds more like a 16-year-old. You're twisting my words and resorting to sarcastic bashing. Since you so like these stuff then,
"thanks O saviour"
Why thank you my oh so definitely-not-a-teenager person from the internet. It was my pleasure. Here's a cute emoji to accompany yours ( ˘ ³˘).
With much love,
- your local LGBT defender.
Thank you! Don't gotta explain myself but yeah for my age at 27, I'm wasting my time with Local LGBT defender, so I guess that's what I get!
Anyways so now that we're on a friendly note with kisses, since you looove hanging in mpreg stories sites, could you recommend me others? It's one of my fave genres
"Don't gotta explain myself but yeah for my age at 27,"
Oh my, I really hoped you were younger because your responses are just, hmmmmm...
"Anyways so now that we're on a friendly note with kisses, since you looove hanging in mpreg stories sites, could you recommend me others? It's one of my fave genres"
Sure thing love (づ￣ ³￣)づ:
- Love Shuttle
- Blood Link
- Tadaima, Okaeri
Oh yeah, I've read those. I currently read Love is an Illusion because that one also shows the pregnancy like in Hosik's Story. I love when it actually shows the pregnancy in mpreg stories. Sure, many things are very cliche and stereotypical for yaoi or mpreg tropes, but it's what also makes it good sometimes. Obviously rape is bad and no one is defending it. Some time ago I had psychiatrist sessions on exploring my childhood, such as my uncle trying to rape me and my mom siding with her brother. So therapist said that repressing those memories is only hurting myself, like preventing healthy development, such as being able to continue a normal life. So exploring my emotions is a healthy way to move on and it made sense why I liked reading dark stuff. I finally felt there was nothing wrong with me, and people saying it was bad to do so was only taking away power from me and giving it to the real abusers.
So tldr, shaming people for liking this stuff only further stigmatizes and discourages from speaking out, and blames the victims for their own abuse if they happen to be survivors.
My girlfriend is also a survivor so we both talk about the stuff we've read and how it helped us emotionally to move on.
Btw we both can't have babies because she had surgery from a tumor and I have a back condition that would potentially paralyze me if I attempted to get pregnant. So I guess seeing mpreg stories with actual pregnancies helped me get out of depression of us not being able to bear children.
So yeah... our lives are not privileged so these are healthy ways to cope recommended by our local therapists.
Oh and I'm sure other rape victims are not prepared to read this stuff so yes they definitively shouldn't. And no one is ever forced to. You read what you want in the Internet and now everything has tags.
Everyone here has their story and of course you as well and have your reasons for finding this webtoon icky. So please, we're just asking you to move on to something you do like, and let us explore stories like this without further stigmatization.
If you find this content misogynist, because guys can't be feminine, that's a whole different story too. Again, some gay guys want a traditional role too, they don't have to be manly all the time. I think asking males to always be acting like a "male gender" is too much pressure. gender is fluid. There are mpreg stories where both are alpha or the omega is actually manly, so you don't have to read /these/ types not aimed at you..
Okay, I want to clear things up.
I absolutely love this manhwa, like it's one of my top faves. My issue was that some disliked that the female role was somehow forced in Hosik in the story and some people interpreted that dislike as misogynistic and I wanted to clear up that that's not always the case. Some gay men want to be treated as men and some want to be treated as a female, I understand this. Things just got kinda spiraled out of control.
I love mpreg stuff because honestly, I want that too. I find pregnancy to be a really difficult/terrifying but quite the rewarding process/event. If we were in an omegaverse, I would be okay being the omega because I like the idea of me having a big belly and my husband is just there being protective with me and my big belly. I like imagining that I have these cravings and my husband is just there doing his best to deliver me all the ridiculous food cravings I ask him too. I'm okay with the other way around too. Basically I would've really liked it if mpreg was a thing because I really want to have a bunch of kids with my future husband. I mean adopting is okay because you're giving a family to an abandoned/lonely child but having a kid from your partner is kinda special, to me at least it is.
Now about those Mpreg mangas/manhwas:
So far, Blood Link is the only Bl I know that really showed the pregnancy process. Like the round belly and even the bleeding prior to giving birth too. It's one of my faves.
"There are mpreg stories where both are alpha or the omega is actually manly"
Ooh, I forgot to mention "Keeper of the Pearl". I like this Mpreg webtoon too.
I also like these Mpreg mangas as well:
- Remnant JUJIN Omegaverse
- Boku no Danna-sama
The semes are wolves though and I know it's not everyone cup of tea so I felt the need to tell you since I don't exactly know your preference.
I forgot to mention these Mpreg mangas as well that I really like:
- Megumi and Tsugumi
- Abarenbo Honey
I'm about to read "Kashikomarimashita, Destiny".
I don’t think I was exaggerating that shit lmaoooo
Will you guys stop it? I am starting to find the comments more interesting than the manga. Don't make laugh so much.
Why are the pictures so small? My eyes hurt :(
It wasn't tho?
I am already shipping the normal doctor friend and the beast nurse(?)ヾ(☆▽☆)
I forgot, but is kyungsoo(Hyesung's friend) an alpha?
http://www.mangago.me/read-manga/love_is_an_illusion/uu/love_is_an_illusion-chapter-59/19/
Can someone tell me who is that black haired guy beside dojins sister? And that black haired kid with that guy as well. Are they just random guests or did they appear before and I just forgot?
the guy is dojin eldest brother and the kid is his nephew (the 2nd one though)
Looking forward to the rest. Thanks to the translater.
P.S. anyone got the link to the raw?