beta
Imagine kink shaming a "friend" so hard that you help commit a b&e and vandalism against them. Just let them have consensual fun and match each other's freak, my guy. It hurts you literally 0% to let your friends do what makes them happy in their consenting adult relationships
I mean, part of me says all that with levity but I also know the crap that the kink, queer, and kinky queer communities have had to deal with irl for decades so....smh.
I'm looking forward to Hoseob helping to get the shitty ex arrested though, that'll be satisfying.
My question is: What would a bdsm/ kinky bl manga or manhwa need to have or not have in order for you to consider it "good"? What makes a bdsm/kinky bl manga or manhwa "bad"? Like, what are you all looking for when you're reading a kink or bdsm series:
- super consent forward and explicitly negotiated depictions of bdsm with little to no conflict
- realistic depictions of kink with realistically written characters including miscommunications, complex feelings and grey area situations
- pure fantasy where we readers can just assume things are negotiated
- something else or a blend of the above
Lately there have been a few BDSM/ kink manga and manhwa that have displayed very great in mental, emotional, and physical aspects of kink but eventually develop conflict in the negotiation/ emotion/ communication aspect. So many people have been getting really upset about those conflicts and begin absolutely tearing those series to shreds despite them not being finished or the issues being, in my opinion, pretty realistic OR acceptable for fictional story drama. I absolutely understand people being upset when certain things happen in a story with BDSM/ kink as a focus but I also feel like a lot of nuance and grey area is being judged in favor of looking for unrealistically high standards in BDSM/ kink content.
I've been in the kink scene for over a decade in many different types of dynamics, I'm friends with many prodommes/ kinky sex workers, I volunteer with a nonprofit that is a community space for queer adults (with a huge overlap in the kink and sex work community), and I've been an educator in the kink scene for over 5 years. Kink is a HUGE part of my life and my everyday experience and the comments of all these BDSM bl is making me curious. I just wanted to start a dialogue, see what people are looking for in order to consider something a genuinely good bdsm/ kink series, what things are making people decide a good series has gone bad, and how does that vary from person to person?
Just realism and consent are enough to get me into a series. Though, (and I don’t know if it’s just me) BDSM scenes where it leans more towards actual torture than pleasure makes me consider if the author understands the concept. Also one of the characters being an asshole outside and during can make me drop.
CONSENT! good bdsm has consent, thats like the most important and basic thing in bdsm
I absolutely agree! Consent forward, always. But this also makes me wonder how you feel about stories where a sub consents to something they're on the fence about and the dom follows through on it without noticing the sub's discomfort.
What about a series where we're at the point that the couple is in an established dom/sub dynamic and they do a more intense scene and we aren't shown explicit consent discussions beforehand?
What about if personal feelings like anger or guilt influence a scene in a series without impacting the negotiated things? Do those situations make the series bad for you then? Or are you open to exploring the nuance and grey areas/ can suspend disbelief enough to just enjoy the kinky horny fun times?
These things are super individual, there is no right or wrong answer. I just wanna know how you feel personally about those types of scenarios when they happen in stories, zero judgment.
I'm probably in the minority here but I actually really like how this story is going. A service top who only got started domming for the person he likes and a brat who doesn't realize that he's using his bratty behavior as armor to protect himself who are both in their young 20's, figuring things out in incredibly messy ways, is so compelling to me. It hurts and it's not easy to read but I really like reading flawed characters reacting poorly and miscommunicating in realistic ways. ESPECIALLY when there are facets of their relationship that are very grey, personal, and nuanced like a BDSM/ kink dynamic.
My heart breaks for both of them rn. The fact that the sub lied bc he was afraid the truth would hurt his bf/ didn't want to face what really happened is a very common trauma response for people who were sexually assaulted. The fact that the Dom didn't trust him and reacted so angrily and coldly in the way that the bratty sub "trained" him to makes sense. The fact that the sub broke down because he saw how much he actually hurt his bf and got dropped into the stages of grief head first absolutely makes sense. The fact that the Dom kicked the sub out because he felt betrayed and was lied to which made him decide he couldn't handle being "toyed" with by the sub anymore absolutely makes sense. I don't blame either of them. This is all so messy but not in any way that's malicious. They're both hurting and acting in accordance to their own pain, trauma, established role in the relationship, and the knowledge they have at the time. It's really heavy but it's also really real. I don't say any of that to defend any of their actions, just to say I understand them.
If y'all want a fluffy and smutty bdsm story with little to no conflict, that's so valid. I also would love more stories like that. But just because this story has complex conflict AND has BDSM/ kink as a big factor in the narrative, it doesn't mean this is a bad BDSM story OR a bad representation of BDSM/ kink. I honestly think this is quite a good representation of kink within the context of the story. Like, showing people how kink can clash with hurt personal feelings is so valuable. I can't tell you how many times I've consented to something in a scene because I thought I was okay with it when we negotiated, felt not great about it during the scene but powered through because of my own internal stuff and then realized afterwards how much that thing hurt me. But that hurt wasn't my domme's fault, not at all. It wasn't my fault either. It was just something that happened, because me and my domme are both people with flaws and many emotions who are just doing our best. But this is where things like RACK and PRICK come into play. And the FRIES acronym for consent. This is also where consent purity culture can become really harmful, when people start trying to blame or judge or project all over someone else's dynamic.
There's so much more I want to talk about here because people who practice BDSM are flawed and have trauma and miscommunicate and make mistakes and take things personally, like every other human on this planet. There is no way for anyone to perfectly engage in kink, that's literally impossible. But seeing two characters practice the kink acts themselves in fairly accurate and safely depicted ways while having problems with their dynamic/ communication/ internal emotional pain is something I'm glad to see. I hope the author is aiming for a "A Terrible Romance" kind of arc because I think this will be a masterpiece if so.
I feel people who really dont know how BDSM really works.
Me and my partner are in a d/s relationship for 4 years, and just a few months ago there was a conflict that nearly put our relationship in jeopardy until we set formal boundaries. And we also tried a lot of new things.
We talked it out and told what we wanted. A lot of trust plus communication and boundaries.
Not only that, not every bdsm story or relationship its going to be sunshine and rainbows. Theres going to be a lot of ups and downs.
Ur absolutely right. specially im the beginning stages where u dont know each other limits very well, or even preferences, sexual and non-sexual. Communication in this relationships is the most important thing. Its very rare to even find manhwa that actually portrait a D/S or S/M accurately. It is not sunshine and rainbows but its also not abuse. Also from what the manhwa said, the sub did not say he raped. He stayed silent. No wonder the dom thought he cheated. Was it a good reaction? No. Do i understand the anger? Absolutely. At this point idk wat ppl expected from the dom when he was literaly "taught" by the sub to be this explosive. Ima stick until the end but i think ik wat will happend
Yeah, the manhwa or shows never really show how those things work, so people get influenced by it and think that's how it is.
I really appreciate your comment! And I'm also glad that you and your partner were able to get through that rough spot together and come out with more trust and support on the other side.
I agree that a lot of people here on this site don't really know what a BDSM dynamic or relationships in the kink scene entail in the real world. Like I've seen some of the most toxic couples who practiced BDSM/kink perfectly on paper and I've seen some very healthy bonds do some very unsafe things as they were learning.
I spoke on a panel last year talking about long-time life in the scene and the thing that people were struggling the most to wrap their heads around was negotiation and consent. Negotiation and consent ARE complicated and they require both trust and understanding risk. They also require understanding that not everyone does the most right or healthiest or most consent-forward thing all of the time every single scene.
I did a scene two weekends ago with a very close friend of mine where we didn't negotiate details at all beforehand. We've played before so she knows my likes and limits, we've been friends for years, and we did do a small check in about physical and mental space before we started but I basically put all my trust in her with very little communication on the details of the scene. She's someone who I often risk pushing my boundaries for to get her approval/ praise, it's literally been a part of our relationship that I've been working to unlearn because I know it's a me thing. So not negotiating before a scene put me at risk of letting her push me too far. But she also trusts me, too. She trusts me to take care of myself, she trusts me to hold her accountable, and she trusts me to let myself let go when I know I'm safe. And I did. I knew how to advocate for myself and called yellow when I needed to. I let myself let go and feel safe within my lack of control. And I DID push my limits because I wanted her to be proud of me and I also let aftercare get cut short because of our conflicting needs. But that was on me, not her.
Idk...it just feels like consent purity culture really wants to shame people for simple human complications. But that does nothing to help people learn how to navigate consent discussions because then they're just spending so much time stressing out wondering if they didn't do it right or don't feel like they can forget something or make a mistake or spiral if they unintentionally crossed a line they didn't know about. It's not all sunshine and rainbows, for sure. People deserve to know that they don't need to do everything perfectly to practice safe and consensual bdsm/ kink. They just need to do their best and let others do the same, without judgment, while they're learning.