Hearts4MingwaMen's Topics (13)

Where did JJK rape Kim?

Because, if I remember, a contract with payment and when the party agrees, that is consent.

multiple times dan has said no and stop when engaging in sex w jjk, consent is always allowed to be revoked during sex and jjk never respected that.

When? I’ve read this from day one? When did Dan say stop in any kind of way and JJ didn’t?

your weird asf

Man, we want actual chapters. You can say this all you want, but absolutely nobody has been giving any chapter evidence.

Thanks for the compliment. You can say that all you want, but it doesn't answer the question. I'm not saying that what JJK did to him wasn't terrible (it WAS bad). However, what Kim Dan did was PROSTITUTION, which is PAID SEX. Kim Dan had plenty of times to cancel this contract. And he did! Good for Dan!!

I didn't see this from the other comment (which again, gave no references to the chapters), so I will post it here:

if consent is to be revoked during sex, did Dan give him back the money? Because this is an agreement and contract. Otherwise, JJK is going to sue. And he KNEW THIS because he started giving money back to JJK after he left. Why didn't he leave for good when he supposedly said "no" during sex? Why instead was the tipping point when Kim Dan realized there was no sustenance in their relationship (discarding gift, no trust after spray)? Because he was in a paid contract (prostitution) and was fulfilling the agreement.

You all act like this is a cut-and-dried matter, but in reality, the situation is more complex thant you want to think. Kim Dan agreed to a contract for sex. He could have just ended it like when he did in chapter 52-53. He's shown that he can.

Kim Dan is in a pornwha. He isn't smart, and he is dumb enough to keep following JJK's sexual abuse (not rape) for money. The prostitutes whom JJK discarded or left warned Dan. Did he leave? No. When it got too much, did he quit his job where he had to see his sexual abusers every day? No. So, do you know what he could have done if he wasn't in a pornwha and did want to leave the cycle?

He could have taken up another job (streaming, teaching, part-time). Asked for help on Kickstarter or any donation website. Took a loan like a regular adult in this situation. Work to get promotions or higher education and training. Asked the hospital for an itemized bill and ask for a discount to be applied. Ask his insurance why his rates are so ass and get a different one.

But instead, he chose the route that he knew would leave him with some scars. He wanted the money fast and easy. It proved not to be easy, but it was fast, and that's why he stuck.

JJK is a sack of shit but he is not a rapist. This was under a mutual contract. And if Kim Dan really wanted to leave, he just needed to say no and pay back the money he received for the session.

brother just turn yourself into prison wtf do u mean u don't know when jaekhyung raped Kim Dan, that's the only type of sex they have.

Just because Kim Dan agreed to having sex for money does not mean Jaekhyung can treat him like fucking shit

Consent isn't a fucking blood contract. Kim Dan crying and begging for Jaehyung to stop is him revoking consent and Jaekhyung not stopping is rape. If you can't understand that then idk why you're reading a story, you've got bigger issues to work out.

holy yap! did you not read then manhwa.? kim dan left and yk what jaek did? search for him and immediately asked to have sex. believe what you wanna believe but jaekyung is a rapist and a contract doesn’t define if he is or not. kim dan is stupid but he was only doing it for his grandma. he was bribed with money oml

Did you not read your own reply?
"JJK asked..."
And what did Kim Dan say? "Yes."
Did you know Kim Dan can get a restraining order if this were a normal, sensible manwha? Or call the cops? But you guys act like Kim Dan has no backbone. He AGREED TO THE SEX. THIS IS CONSENSUAL.

He wasn't bribed, he LITERALLY AGREED TO THE CONTRACT. Let me write out EXACTLY what was said in chapter 2.
Kim Dan:" I Didn't come here to do that kind of thing!"
JJK: "My Physical Therapist? So I guess you don't need that five grand after all. If you're not gonna do it, you get out, too. What I actually need is sex, not some massage."

Kim Dan In this thoughts: "What? Get out? Just like that? No way!... I did think it was a bit sketchy, but the thought of all that cash just took over. How stupid can I possibly be?... Five thousand dollars is too much to just turn down and walk away... If I can get through just this once."

Kim Dan: "...You have to keep your promise. The five thousand dollars."

JJK: "Of course."

JJK LITERALLY GAVE HIM AN OUT. WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT RAPE??? At this point, YOU are the issue. Anything and everything is now rape under your specific random conditions. It's not the official definition now of simply giving consent (rape = the absense of consent in sex), it's whatever YOU believe it is, right? Right? Because that's why I'm reading.

I was curious also about what was said in Chapter 62-63. So here is more evidence to support he did not rape Kim Dan.

Chapter 62

Kim Dan: "After all, you initially took me in to use me as a sex toy, paying me 5000 dollars for each night. Yeah, you should have just been honest form the start. It'd be better for me to sleep with you and make ten grand more. So let's have sex."

No restraining order, no cops called, JJK did not force him to, he just kept nagging him like a child who didn't get what he wanted.
Supported by Chapter 63: "I said I didn't want to, but you kept insisting. I did exactly what you wanted." NOT FORCED!!! KIM DAN SAYS HIMSELF THAT HE DID WHAT HE WANTED. Kim Dan says JJK kept INSISTING. ASKING. Kim Dan said NO. NO CONSENT. but guess what? THEY DIDN'T DO IT WHEN HE SAID NO. Kim Dan had enough of him asking. but instead of getting legal action, he does the pornwha method and does it without emotion. JJK now focuses on the words "I'm just a tool you go to when you're in the mood for sex."

that literally proves my point abt the bribery but wtv so pressed lmao

yap yap yap yap yap yap it is abt what I BELIEVE right? right? i believe that jaekyung is a sexual assaulter and a narcissist and that kim dan is a complete idiot (⌒▽⌒) calm tf down doing everything to defend this wack ass manhwa

not doing a deep dive but jst went to chap 12, maybe 14 too i think. overall their relations isn’t consensual period. if you think otherwise that is pretty terrifying

12 to start

Okay then.

Bribery: • persuade (someone) to act in one's favor, typically illegally or dishonestly, by a gift of money or other inducement. Google
• persuade (someone) to act in one's favor, typically illegally or dishonestly, by a gift of money or other inducement. Merriam Webster.
•to try to make someone do something for you by giving them money, presents, or something else that they want cambrige.

JJK did not influence him. He told him actively what he wanted and told him to hit the road if he didn't want to. There was no persuasion. I like cambrige's definition of persuasion: to make someone do or believe something by giving them a good reason to do it or by talking to that person and making them believe it:

Once again, read it. "You get out, too" is what he said and left it at that. Kim Dan could have said no. Instead. He AGREED TO THE TERMS aka this is PROSTITUON. Chapter 63 also has Kim Dan saying this is sex work.
"the practice or occupation of engaging in sexual activity with someone for payment."

There was no bribery. The evidence is there in what I posted. If it were a bribe, he would have been begging Kim Dan to have sex. But he DIDNT. HE COULD HAVE LITERALLY ANYONE. Season 2 is when JJK tries to persuade Kim Dan to have sex. But Kim Dan says no multiple times, and the gives in (again, consent because he said yes instead of calling police and keeping his no decision).

Also, I am calm, lmao. I'm just writing what I think. You're the one getting extremely rude, mocking what I say like a 14 year old who can't keep it straight. Maybe you're not mature enough for this manwha?

sure wtv im not mature enough for it because i wouldn’t wanna put so much time n effort analyzing every little thing to prove that jaekyung isnt a rapist and that the contract is consent. every time (probably not every time) kim dan says no, jaekyung brings up money. obviously to cause kim dan to overthink it and give in for the damn money. idk abt you but to me that feels like manipulation. especially w the money, so it gives off bribing vibes. its honestly concerning for how much effort your putting into this argument over a problematic manhwa. i do apologize for being rude though.

Finally, some good fuckign evidence. Chapter 12.
Kim Dan has a drink, but knows he is there to have sex with JJK. He says "stop that's enough" when JJK fingers him, and he promptly stops. Kim Dan saw the toy he was going to use. JJK used it during sex and was about to finish. Kim Dan does say stop right at JJK's high (he finishes less than 10 panels later). Kim Dan answers JJK saying he hates it, and passes out. It's hard to call this rape when he does stop their session after he passes out and he says "You can't even handle 1 round?" when he wakes up. This indicates he didn't go any further.

You could make a case that it is rape when he doesn't immediately stop. If you want to call him a rapist there, then I concede, this is actually a good chapter to cite it. But when I look at chapter 13, this is the conversation afterward:

JJK: "I'm not asking for any special techniques in the bedroom, but you at least need to handle me."

Kim Dan: "I'm sorry sir, I'll do better!" (Accepting the terms, and it sounds after this as he talks about the experience, he doesn't regard it as forced or rape).

Again, it is a contract. So if he says stop, then Kim Dan will need to forfeit some of the money or pay it back. In this case, Kim Dan did not pay back what was due (he did not handle one round according to JJK), yet JJK still wants to pay him in advance.

In chapter 13, and as an apology (please remember his past, a lot of people IRL don't like to aplogize or know how), he cooks for Kim Dan and calls in a doctor to see him. Additionally, the toy is never used again throughout the series.

Okay, then don't. I write because I'm bored. I'm sorry it's it's a chore to you to engage in an conversation using facts or evidence to prove your points. He literally said one sentence. That's not making him overthink. That's Kim Dan's issue, not JJK's. JJK literally gave him an out. How is it maniputive to give an out? Kim Dan is the one falling for JJK even though there were no feelings attached until near when Kim Dan gives him a gift. This is not bribery or manipulation.

LMAO see sex workers as people challenge lvl: impossible.

they deserve rights and not to be fucking raped, stalked, and harassed you pos

No, I do see them as people. I don't know where you're getting any of what I said.

Kim Dan thinks everything is okay after chapt 13 which it isn't. But because HE AGREED to these terms and then later said he would "do better," this is effectively saying "I agree to your terms". If he didn't agree and maybe pushed back, you wouldn't be saying this. Did you not read what JJK said chapter 13? He said he wasn't asking for anything special.

Kim Dan could have used that moment to ADVOCATE FOR HIMSELF. He could have said, "Okay. No sex toys, no roughness, no xyz. I want this to be vanilla. That falls within your terms of nothing special" But instead he agreed to the terms. JJK doesn't see anything wrong with this. You know why? Because he had plenty of partners. Some people like being "abused" and hit, others like to be treated gently. And because KD is now agreeing to the terms, JJK feels like he can do anything. He's given him multiple outs thus far, but KD is so blinded by money (NOT MANIPULATIVE. JJK already said to him that he can leave whenever he wants. This is called greed, guys, and it doesnt matter what the use is for) that HE HIMSELF, and nobody else is forcing him to believe this, BUT HE BELIEVES HE HAS TO DO THIS TO KEEP GETTING 5K.

And since chapter 2, Kim Dan has not shown nor told JJK explicitly that he would like to be treated with love and respect. If he had just said he was getting attached (past chapter 13, KD catches feelings after JJK "apologizes" with his actions), i feel like JJK would not continue the contract. He wants a sex worker, not a lover.

If the guy had some fucking backbone and put his foot down during the multiple outs JJK Gave him, it wouldn't be like this. JJK, too, is an ass for not trusting Dan during the spray scene and for rejecting his gift. For being so hard on KD in and out of sex. Kpopstan's evidence for rape is quite strong, but again, KD did not even think to report for rape or quit the agreement, pay back the money for not fully doing round 1... Sex workers have rights, but they are also under a LEGALLY BINDING CONTRACT. And the fact Kim Dan lets JJK add to this contract with a his weird sex fantasies is concerning. It's his desperation for money that is quick and easy to make that is the problem.

Stalking is terrible. Harassing is terrible. And I'm not saying it isn't bad, nor have I ever said I wasn't bad. The initial post was about how JJK thinks all of the shit he's done is the right way to do things. And it is REASONABLE because he comes from a background where no reason or socially acceptable good actions are taught. Therefore he does have an excuse but it DOES NOT absolve him from the consequences coming his way.

And if Kim Dan TRULY wants to end this, he would put a restraining order and call the cops. He wouldn't have taken the picture with someone who knows JJK. He wouldn't have given in to sex so easily if his resolve was burning so much to get back at him. But because this is a pornwha, he has to be absolute most dumbest motherfucker out there for this decision. Somehow, that dumbest decision to not react right during that c63 scene has made JJK start a reflection process that turned into a redemption process toward ch70 after the got so concerned about KD drowning.

JJK even hugged KD, which is out of his character and something he hadn't really done with anyone else. I think he learned to do this after watching KD with his grandma.

Mark my words. He may be trying to redeem himself or going through a period of change, but this does NOT mean that KD has to forgive him (but he will) or accept his offers. This is the consequences of his actions.

I still don’t see grape….JJ used a weird ass-toy he was rough (Dan knows how JJ is lol). Doc Dan was jumped by those loan sharks, and then showed up for his fuck-buddy job at JJ place, all beat up. In context Dan says “stop” b/c he didn’t like the toy and JJ asked him (I’m paraphrasing) “Doc, what do you think about the toy” and Dan said “ I hate it.” I thought that was a cute scene. JJ called a Doctor and we never saw the ass-toy again.

What’s version are you reading (I’m reading from the official). Because in (ch 12) while JJ was fingering him, Dan says “Sir, that’s enough” fingering, not stop I don’t want to fuck you and JJ forced himself on Dan. Sound like you’re reading a bad translation. Context is important and bad translation can lead to misunderstanding

I scrolled all the way down the chapter list and looked at Ch12 censored. I also looked at Ch12 uncensored. The exact page is 22/34 in uncensored and 31/49 in censored. So here's the thing:
We're an American audience. The writers are Korean. Our laws do not agree on what rape is. I was curious after another, separate topic what they defined it as. https://elaw.klri.re.kr/eng_mobile/viewer.do?hseq=27332&type=part&key=7 Or you can just search South Korean rape laws.This shit is so hard to read without line breaks, but to summarize, it is more about violence, force and intimidation. I did not see the word consent except for when publishing media without someone's consent.

Here in US of America, which is most of these readers, consent can be withdrawn any time and either party (receiving or penetrating) must stop what they're doing immediately, whether or not they're about to climax.
In the Federal codes, the last part is not there. It talks about consent but not withdrawing it: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/920
Presently, I am having trouble finding the withdrawal of consent with any state. I'm checking RAINN's official website which talks about withdrawal, but the state's laws that I looked at on there don't talk about it.
Regardless, it is understood in the US that consent is freely given and taken. So when JJK didn't stop when KD said stop, this is the crime zone.

Had KD reported it or reflected on it, that would confirm. But instead, in CH13, he actually rolls with it and says he'll "do better". So this means, he did not view it as rape. He viewed it as part of a job and went with it to get 5k. JJK even took care of him, by looks of it aftercare, got a doctor, cooked food, and more. A rapist would have gone on while he was sleeping (which would violate SK laws) without caring what their partner thought. This leads me to believe he didn't hear it, thought it was part of sex play, or he got caught up in the moment of climax.

Most of the commentary just look at one thing and go "l-look!!! He said one thing here!!!! He did something bad here!!" But fail to read anything after it NOR look at how the supposed victim feels after the fact.

I forgot to add. US Law and or what US society deems for withdrawing consent can be as simple as "no" or "stop". You dont need to tack on the fancy "stop penetrating me" because what else would JJK doing for him to say stop? Tell him to stop talking? Tell him to stop boxing? No. It is implied that KD wants JJK to stop using the sex toy. JJK obviously can't read KD's mind as he is a dumbass muscle head but we as readers know that KD hates the toy. He understood once KD said "I hate it" and never used the toy again, but if he were a little bit smarter, he would have stopped when KD told him to stop. Instead. He viewed it as sex play, like a CNC session.

As soon as I read that word during JJK's little sex toy fun, that's when Angelic Doe had their point. That's when I said I would concede, but I also asked them to consider the conversation in chapter 13.

Dude I’m from California

Still Dan never withdrawn his consent. I’ve read Bl with hard evidence of rape. You’re stretching the context to fix your argument. And I was referring to which English translation were you reading because the scenes you were quoting were absolutely different from the official translation, which is where I’ve re-read the chapter 12-13 from

An our culture (Self righteous Americans) shouldn’t be the baseline and considered for other cultures work anyway, Americans has their own unique fucked up issues. If you like it read it, if not don’t. Dans not dumb. A rapist wouldn’t provide aftercare from a guilty conscience, rapist have no guilt. In ch 13: JJ felt bad about being rough when, Dan’s body was so beat up by someone else, then Dan passed out from f-bubby duties. JJ paid off his bills, bought him home and paid grandma medical bills. Bl rapist don’t do that. JJ is edgy but not criminal and Dan’s aware or he would’ve left and found another way to support himself. Than JJ would’ve found another f-buddy just like the guy before Dan. It’s about the Jinx not the person.

"Kim Dan could have used that moment to ADVOCATE FOR HIMSELF." do you not see how you're literally victim blaming. you're saying 'he should've done this' or 'he should've done that' a majority of sexual abuse victims (ESPECIALLY MALE VICTIMS) don't even see themselves as victims bc it's so hard for them to admit what happened to them was wrong.

I keep coming back to reply bc it genuinly fucks me up that there are ppl like u out in the world that doesn't give a fuck about this shit. you acknowledge shit jaekyung does is wrong and you still defend him till your face turns blue. girl get help, bye

I doubt you'll read it all, so TLDR:
• You're just teaching that victims can't ever get out of their situation unless someone else steps in. You're teaching they can walk into any situation after witnessing what they were getting into, and then cry victim afterward.
• KD again had the ability to consent and shown that he agrees with JJK's contract even despite experiencing rough sex.
• JJK is an ass. But this is because of how he grew up. He has to excuse. But his consequences will catch up to him, like it as in Season 2.

"Just because Kim Dan agreed to having sex for money does not mean Jaekhyung can treat him like fucking shit." Except he can. Kim Dan signed a contract and accepted the contract with its conditions. He saw how JJK treated that prostitute in Chapter 1, he knew what he was getting into. And when JJK laid it out plain in chapter 2, Kim Dan still accepted it. And never once pushed back hard until he got fed up and actually left him (a good ducking decision). And in Chapter 13, he says he will "do better". He calls it harsh, but he keeps coming back? Like I said JJK Gave him MULTIPLE OUTS. so many fucking outs. If I'm victim blaming for Kim Dan not getting himself out of there, why are you ignoring all the outs that JJK Gave to KD for him to escape the abuse?

The "should haves" and "could haves" are to get KD OUT OF ANOTHER SITUATION, not to shame him for not doing xyz before an encounter happened. If he didn't want to be treated harshly, then after the session, he could have gone to the police. Reported it and got a restraining order. Gotten the help he needed. But instead, KD put himself in these situations because he wanted money. I'm going to blame his stupidity. Not victim blaming. He consented to get money. I'm literally telling you how he could have gotten the help he needed (aka HEALTHILY HELPING MALE VICTIMS and showing the BETTER WAY TO APPROACH THEIR PERPETRATORS. Showing them they don't need to submit because they have a network of support that can squash their abusers). Excusing them for stupidity like you and so many others teaches them no accountability for their idiocy. There's a difference between real rape (where you can't do anything about it, can't consent, or get extremely scared and need a break) and purposefully walking into the goddamn situation like KD did (Accepting 5k every fucking time he had sex).

This is like walking through an apartment, seeing it has so many issues and the landlord showing you the issues, yet buying it anyways. Then, you try and sue the landowner because he sold you a faulty home.You guys are trying to sue.
Kim dan bought a fault apartment and continued to live in the apartment. But instead of fixing it or leaving, he grew accustomed to the issues or fixed it along the way (aka set the precedent for no penetrative toys to JJK).

"Consent isn't a fucking blood contract. Kim Dan crying and begging for Jaehyung to stop is him revoking consent and Jaekhyung not stopping is rape. If you can't understand that then idk why you're reading a story, you've got bigger issues to work out."
First of all, reread chapter 12. If there's any other chapter where he as begging, please let me know.

In this chapter, He was not crying or begging, he simply said stop once. Regardless, JJK should have stopped immediately, but he didn't. However, he did not go further afterwards, noticing he went too far. However, judging by KD's reaction, JJK seems to have made up for it by helping with aftercare, cooking, and the doctor.
---
From now on, I will look up the definitions of what you're saying and apply it to what we have established.


"Sexual Violence means physical sexual acts without the consent of the other person or when the other person is unable to give consent. Sexual violence includes sexual assault, rape, domestic violence, dating violence and stalking."
JJK obtained consent. Verbally, up until KD said stop with the dick toy. Once again, Ch13 has KD say he will do better and he will continue.

"Sexual Assault occurs when physical, sexual activity is engaged in without the consent of the other person, or when the other person is unable to consent to the activity. The activity or conduct may include physical force, violence, threat, intimidation, ignoring the objections of the other person, causing the other person’s intoxication or incapacitation (through the use of drugs or alcohol) or taking advantage of the other person’s intoxication (including voluntary intoxication)."
KD was able to consent and did in chapter 12. By accepting the money, he is also consenting to a session. He consented when he allowed JJK to pay him in advance. Therefore, whatever was done, KD allowed.

https://sexualviolence.universityofcalifornia.edu/faq/#:~:text=Sexual%20Violence%20means%20physical%20sexual,violence%2C%20dating%20violence%20and%20stalking.
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Here is an excerpt from sace:
"It’s important to remember that people always have the right to do what makes them feel safest, but at the end of the day, they should never be expected to limit their own actions, freedom of expression, or freedom of movement in anticipation of someone else’s potential for abusive behaviour."
—KD agreed initially in chapter 12 and later withdrew consent right before climax. Therefore, he is capable of knowing what is "safe" for him and thus he is able to say no. Like I said, kpopfan made a good case for rape by the American definition. But even so, KD is saying it's okay by saying he'll do better... and also not leaving until right before season 1. That's 40 chapters he could have gotten help or confided in others to get help. He was not limited in any of the three listed. He instead was blinded by greed. He cannot claim be a victim, and he knows this because AS SAID IN CHAPTER 63, This is SEX WORK to him. And SEX WORK can end any time when they feel violated, as long as the money is paid back.


"We need to recognize that people are never required to say no “strongly enough”, to fight back against an assault, or to follow the many and sometimes conflicting commonly circulated safety tips, in order to avoid the potential for being harmed by another person."
Once again, KD accepts the terms for money. It's a yes. There was never a "no" except when he really doesn't want JJK to do something in sex, and then JJK will stop (with the fingerings example) or will stop shortly after because he got carried away, did not hear, or was caught up trying to finish (which would be rape by America definition) and gives aftercare afterwards and doesn't go farther than what Kim Dan can handle.

---

I do feel sorry for Kim Dan. He feels he needs to have sex with someone for 5k each time just to pay for his Gma's treatment. But he doesn't have to. He is simply acting out of desperation. And even though JJK capitalizes on it... he is not forc8ng him to do this. He literally gives him so many options just in the first 15 chapters to leave. KD says it's harsh in ch13. But guess what? He can do so many other things to earn money. He could have said "no, actually, I don't want to do this anymore. You hurt me, you ignored me". But instead, he agreed to JJK's terms AND ADVANCE PAY. THIS ITS PURE IDIOCY. Now it's just the consequences of his actions. You could argue this is Stockholm syndrome, but even then, Kim Dan can freely leave whenever he wants. And he CHOSE and CONSENTED TO NOT DOING THAT.

Chapter 12. From the raw because I do not have access to the official:
Kim Dan says, "그, 그마안..." want to know what this means?
https://hinative.com/questions/22683657 "Stop, that's enough"
https://translate.google.com/?sl=ko&tl=en&text=%2C%EA%B7%B8%EB%A7%88%EC%95%88...&op=translate "not that...". If you put a "-" infront of the phrase, it turns into "no"...

"The phrase "그, 그마안..." (geu, geu-ma-an...) translates directly to "that, that's not..." in English. However, where the speaker is experiencing pain and potentially wanting the other person to stop, the direct meaning might not fully capture the intended emotion or urgency. In that case, a more accurate interpretation could be something like "No, stop, that's enough..." or "That's not okay, please stop..." even though those words aren't present in the phrase itself." —Pi


I also reread your posts. You deliberately did not write out and left out what he said on those pages. You talked about the fingering, skipped over what I presented, and then talked about how Kim Dan said he hated it. So tell me. What does the official say when Kim Dan says "그, 그마안..." in the official? Right after he says "my mind is turning blank."

And also, if you took a moment to read my posts when you have time, you would notice I am agreeing with you. However, if this took place in America, he would be considering raping KD in the last part of their sex. But because this took place in SK by SK authors, this idea of consent is different and therefore portrayed differently.

For Koreans, this will not be rape because there was no force or intimidation.
For Americans in California, we look to People v. John Z | Case Brief for Law Students | Casebriefs https://share.google/zOZUXVQq0P4l53qZq

Or for Americans in general: https://scholarworks.law.ubalt.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2268&context=lf#:~:text=Page%202,Baby%20off%20with%20her%20knees.
STATE V. BABY: A WOMAN MAY WITHDRAW CONSENT
FOR SEXUAL INTERCOURSE AFTER PENETRATION, AND
CONTINUATION OF SEXUAL INTERCOURSE AFTER
WITHDRAWAL OF CONSENT THROUGH FORCE OR
THREAT OF FORCE CONSTITUTES RAPE."

But then this opens another can of worms: was what JJK did when KD said "stop" force? Did JJK threaten KD? Did KD fight back like Baby did in her case?

shut the fuck up, are you directionally challenged because what the hell is this circular argument. I'm just gonna pick out statements that rly baffled me because wow your writing is incoherent.

"If he didn't want to be treated harshly, then after the session, he could have gone to the police. Reported it and got a restraining order. Gotten the help he needed. But instead, KD put himself in these situations because he wanted money. I'm going to blame his stupidity." ITS CRAZY HOW YOURE STILL FUCKING DOING IT. victims don't have to be perfect to be victims, victims don't know what to do bc we don't get taught about this shit in school, victims are victims. I'm not saying someone else has to step in bc Kim Dan is useless by himself, I'm saying Jaekyung should go to fucking prison for how he treated Kim Dan.

ALSO YOURE IGNORING SOEMTHING FUCKING MASSIVE. HE DID GET OUT. YOU KEEP SAYING HE HAD A MILLION OPPORTUNITIES TO GET OUT.

HE DID.

AND WHAT FUCKING HAPPENED????? Jaekyung stalked and harassed him and you see that shit as a redeption if Jaekyungs character u sick fuck.

"he simply said stop once. Regardless, JJK should have stopped immediately, but he didn't." END OF CONVERSATION. Kim Dan said to stop, he didn't, that's rape. no amount of consent beforehand matters, he verbally said to stop (rekoving consent) and Jaekhyung didn't. it doesn't fucking matter that he didn't go "further" you rapist apologist.

"He instead was blinded by greed. He cannot claim be a victim," I REITERATE, VICTIMS DONT HAVE TO BE PERFECT TO BE VICTIMS. If someone mugs someone on the street and then the person who got robbed rapes the mugger, that's still rape. it doesn't matter what fucking happened, that's rape. ALSO CALLING KIM DAN GREEDY IS CRAZY. HE LITERALLY IS SENDING THAT MONEY ALL TO HIS DYING CANCER RIDDEN GRANDMOTHER U HEARTLESS BITCH.

"which would be rape by America definition" how do you admit its rape and still defend Jaekhyung you're so fucking brain rotted.

"JJK is an ass. But this is because of how he grew up. He has to excuse. But his consequences will catch up to him, like it as in Season 2." shut up you disingenuous fuck. he's not gonna face shit. we all know they're gonna get together and live happily ever after because at the end of the day no one gives a fuck about rape victims or their stories. not you, not the other psycho Jaekhyung defenders, not the author. you're all the reason why rape victims are silent and their rapists get to roam free, because u don't believe victims, not even fictional ones.

I'm gonna mute this shit bc at first it was funny to respond to your dumb shit but now this shit pisses me off and just makes me sad that rape victims are spoken about so poorly.

Since Angelic Doe is going to accuse me of such disingenuous shit and getting mad about things THEY assume about me, then I will respond for the last time. When the FUCK did I say I didn't believe victims? I'm the reason victims are silent? I am one myself, you fucking retard! Not rape, but sexual assault. This is why you don't go assuming shit about other people, because then you look like a genuine fuckface. Keep your fucking assumptions in your brain instead of slandering others for your benefit.

I KEEP SAYING JJK WILL FACE THE CONSEQUENCES. It's literally the same thing I say in all my posts and post history. I don't know if it will be prison or if he will suffer by KD himself. Seems you're ignoring what I say and making things up about what I say. But I said, even if he has an excuse for the way he acts, there will be consequences for how he acted, because that's how the world works.

I never ignored KD getting out. I also mentioned how at the end of season 1, he got out of the cycle. But you guys are constantly talking about BEFORE THIS and painting KD as some helpless whelp who shouldn't have suffered—except he AGREED to do this for his contract! When he finally got his emotions and resolve in check, he left, and good for him! I keep repeating myself, but you keep ignoring it.

JJK is wrong for trying to hunt him down. This is stalking. However, for it to be a crime and registered as a crime, the victim needs to report it (under American Law). And even then, it's not prison if it's reported, it's a restraining order like I mentioned. Get out of your fucking LaLa land ideal world. I told you if he really wanted to keep JJK away, he needed the police involved. But stalking is not something for prison-time, and unless the victim is actively in fear or in danger, then they are pursuing. JJK revealed himself, told him what KD wanted, but KD refused. JJK did keep insisting, but he made no threats. Eventually, he would have been forced to find another partner had KD not accepted and put down a restraining order. But instead, he consented again. Not against his will. KD has proved he can break away from JJK whenever he wants, but he's not will to get legal action when he's fed up with his antics?

https://ovc.ojp.gov/topics/stalking
"Stalking is a crime. Learn more about the laws against stalking in your state at the Stalking Resource Center (link is external). If you are in immediate danger, call 911. You can file a complaint with the police and get a restraining order (court order of protection) against the stalker."

Kim Dan is GREEDY. I will say it again. He is GREEDY because instead of working any other Jobs to cover the expenses (which he is, and he could have continued), instead of making a payment plan with insurance, instead of asking for discount cards for the hostial billing, nstead of starting GoFundMes or Kickstarters, instead of asking for help from his teammates, he would rather go the "easy" route for 5k as shown by his resolve in ch2 to continue fucking JJK. He's either greedy or lazy. Soon. He figured out that this was not easy, but he still stayed because of the 5k (shown in chapter 13). I get he's sending it to his grandma, but he KNOWS there are plenty of other ways. But he says himself that he can't just pass up 5k when the conditions changed right infront of him (chapter 2). Greed is an excessive desire for something, and in this case, it's money quick.

I'm "defending" JJK because I'm looking at context clues, something that it seems you're incapable of. I will not repeat myself about what Kim Dan says in chapter 13, which makes me question whether he excused and accepted what happened or if he is just blindsided by money and ignores it. I will not repeat myself about how KD could have gotten himself out of that situation any time, yet chose when JJK threw away the gift/spray incident.

Just for you. Because you said "victims don't know what to do bc we don't get taught about this shit in school," this is EXACTLY WHY VICTIMS ARE SILENT. You teach them nobody can get out of their situation because they're not supposed to know what to do. They've "never been taught". You don't need to be taught on fight or flight or when someone is making your uncomfortable. So I will quote all the times KD was warned, shown an out and ignored it in another post.

he apologized and never used the toy again , yet he still repeats these patterns. in chap 29(?) dan was scared and revoked his consent clearly from jjk, yet he keeps going and going til the point he is in tears, even then he brushes it off. later in the book he also has that blonde guy watch him and kim dan having sex, weather this falls under sa/sh or rape, kim dan never gave his consent to be watched in this intimate state by others. this isn’t a debate of weather jjk is a rapist or not, he simply is no matter what type of excuse or backstory he has. when yall start to defend this type of behavior and don’t see this as rape, the word loses its meaning and discredits people’s actual experiences, mind you this is all for a fictional character. call him out for what he is

The translation you’re reading isn’t the same as mine. I quoted directly from the official chapter and that’s exactly what Dan and JJ said in the official. So……a different translation interpretation gives the reader a different impression of the characters interactions. Cause I see it differently. The consent laws are correct but based on what Ive read in the official, consent was never withdrawn. JS

it's rly cute that u think calling me slurs and doubling down on your horrid opinions will win you any argument, stay mad <33

agree agree

Da sind die deutschen Lande mal wieder ganz weit vorne dabei, mit ihren durchaus praktischen Vokabeln..

thats what i was thinking.. this is technically assault. he was literally asleep

It is. I think the writer is making it because we know ML is obsessive and MC always give in so it hinders on that Grey line but yeah, in reality, that's sexual assault 100%.