okay I already got that SA is going to be a key topic in this story and im not against dark themes. But building up the tension between the mc and ml, getting the reader excited to see their romance and then hitting us with the rape scene? I don't like that at all. Proper smack in the face. Soured it for me. I'm gonna have to let this marinate. I can't wait another two weeks to get abused like this.
the only reason why I put up with this shit was because I was hoping the writer wouldn't be a fucking coward and let the mc leave him but ofc not. the ml didn't even do anything to earn forgiveness, even at the end he was gonna chase after mc. honestly rapist to lover stories need to stop but there's another manhwa 'beware the full moon in march' which tackles a similar topic but so much better as the ml actually works so hard for forgiveness it's easier to stomach and the mc was not abused anyway near as much as in this story.
icl the way ppl wanna make the ml the villain is so unfair in my opinion when mc is also a problem. Freddie has the nickname the 'demon king' and alot of people are scared of him but whilst he's a bit of a dick whether he has actually earned that nickname is yet to be seen. anyway kira gets betrothed to freddie without her consent and runs away and her family decide to marry her to him anyway, track her down and capture her and hand her over to the 'Demon king' and instead of standing up for his sister Kiran just goes along with this. Doing so, he tricks Freddie into marrying him and convinced Freddie to wait around for his sister because they are definitely going to bring her back. Honestly they are both kind of fucked up for going along with this. I find it even more infuriating that ppl accuse the Freddie of cheating when he found out that woman he loved doesn't want to be with him and the person he thought he had married was actually a man (atp Freddie is straight). And then ppl are commenting Freddie is ruining the princess's rep like the girl RAN AWAY she clearly doesn't gaf. Like wtf? This whole thing is an actual farce. I only hope Kira is never found.
He married him due to politics. It was either marry him for peace and the sake of his nation, or risk a power struggle. His family chose the marriage not him, standing up for her wouldn't do anything unless he ran away too. And him tricking Federick was also life threatening for him. Js because you think Federick over-hated for nothing (I don't disagree w that) Kiran is still a victim and hasn't done anything wrong js like Federick hasn't. You cant ask for fairness for one character while being unfair to the other.
They could have found smth else to broker peace, instead they decided to force a 19 year old into a marriage. They basically sold her. If Kiran had said no, they wouldn't have been able to go through with the trick. What happens when they find Kira? She's going to be locked up in a castle with a man she never wanted. The trick hinges on Kiran's consent, it would never work if they tried to force him, so he is not a victim.
Kiran said he didn't want to tho??? His dad forced him. He was also js locked in the castle until federick found out he was a guy. This would never hinge on his consent if he wasn't coerced into doing it thinking his family and kingdom wouldn't be on the line because of him. If you want to blame someone blame the family, this plan did not depend on Kiran at all. Js as much as Kira is the victim and would be if she stayed, Kiran js took her place.
Kiran could have left too though, like Kira he has some agency. Yes, it was a political marriage but that didnt stop Kira for standing up for herself and after she ran the family didnt even consider alternatives, just get her back no matter what. And if Kiran wanted to he could have just told Frederick that he was a man before they got married. Not to mention he's only being a placeholder for Kira, eventually he's going to go back home and Kira will be stuck there and he's seemingly fine with that. It would be different if he was actually taking Kira's place but he's not.
I'm sorry but like his wife and child were BRUTALLY murdered. Raphael was RAPED and BEATEN to death, yes what he did to Aeroc after that was cruel and I think it's fair to hate Kloff but how comes people in the comments don't equally Aeroc? Kloff didn't organise anyone's murder and only targeted the man who destroyed his life. Has no one here experienced grief? If you can say Aeroc was driven to desperation due to an incorrect bonding you can argue the same for Kloff, in addition to the fact that he lost the original love of his life. Like both OG Aeroc and OG Kloff are horrible people who destroyed each other. It's not fair to label Kloff the villain when he is also a victim.
(EDIT - I've left a longer explanation in the comments if you wanna check that out before downvoting)
People hate Kloff more than Aeroc because Aeroc acknowledges the wrong he committed. In desperation, he sent people to intimidate Raphael, trying to scare him away, where they then raped and killed Raphael. Aeroc never sent them to beat him up; however, Aeroc knows that it was his actions that caused Raphael to be killed, regardless, and he lives with that guilt for the rest of his life. So when Kloff subjects him to horrific abuse (rape, torture, starvation, forced pregnancy, even confining him to a shed) Aeroc never resists or speaks out. He accepts it all as the punishment he believes he deserves. THIS IS WHY PEOPLE CONTINUE TO LIKE AEROC.
If Kloff had only tortured and killed Aeroc, most people would have accepted it as vengeance, after all, Aeroc played a role in the death of Kloff’s wife and unborn child. But that isn’t what happened. And this is important to understand clearly: Kloff did not rape, torture, and force a pregnancy on Aeroc because of Raphael. He never loved Raphael. And if anyone tries to frame rape as a gesture of love or mourning, that in itself is disgusting. If anything, people don’t hate Kloff enough.
100% agree
First timeline Kloff care for Raphiel as an omega, as his spouse and mother of 'their child' but he didn't bond with him or truly loved him. He used him for status in front of society and as a tool to make Aeroc jealous. To feel good about himself and feel superior. Still, that's not a crime.
Talking about how the bonding affected Aeroc is a whole new subject. It's clear during the story that what he did was horrible and he recieved punishment several times. He was raped, gangraped, beated, malnourished, had abortions probably multiple times, slept in the cold and just whored himself for food and shelter.
While, many times in the story, he tried to fool himself saying that he only wanted to scare Raphiel when the truth is that he was the cause of him and the baby ending up dying, which he finally acknowledges at the end of his life.
He couldn't just leave them, Kloff and Raphiel, alone. He was jealous of them being alpha and omega so they could be together without predujices. He was jealous of Raphiel being an omega and that he can give birth to Kloff's child. He was jealous of the baby too.
He's a character that grew up proud to be a noble and incapable of showing his sorrow or shedding tears. Emotions are not something that nobles could afford or show so he behaved as he was taught to. If he shedded tears or was weak, his father would punished him, so he grew up with that mentality. That's why when he was punished by Kloff and didn't cried even when feeling remorseful, telling the truth or feeling sad or sick; that only amplified Kloff's hate and rage, calling him a demon and inflicting more pain to Aeroc in any form possible.
The bonding in Aeroc clashed with his nature as an alpha, a noble and his trauma in a way that he was driven to isane jealousy, resenting his nature and position, that later transformed him into a criature who just wanted to appeal to Kloff's good nature and tried to do and look good in front of him but everything backfires. Because, in this context, that's what an good omega, in submisslon, would do for his alpha. His bond tried and tried to shape him into something he wasn't originally born to.
By that time, all that hate still lingers but the bond makes it imposible to truly despise each other.
It's my personal believe that the first timeline doesn't want us to choose a side. It just tell us the story as it is because the definition of justice and punishment is not equal for everybody. Did Aeroc really deserve all that and more or it was better for him to end up in prision? Was Kloff in the right to take justice by his own hand? He could have killed Aeroc as he killed those street beggars. If he wasn't bonded to Aeroc he could have had done that but Kloff's bond made it so he actually wanted to make Aeroc 'pay' by transforming him into his omega, replacing Raphiel because that's what Aeroc always wanted in his words, have babies and naming the baby after Raphiel to make Aeroc suffer more. Then, separating each child from him, isolating him in the cabin, abuse him, throw him up in the streets where he lived more tragedies... And so on. Was the punishment equally to the crime or was out of proportion? I think that's something that's quite difficult to messure but the thing that it can be discussed is about the bonding and it's consequences when mixed with trauma, social oppression and unruled and unvented emotions.
The tears part! And yes it was out of the proportions.
Agreed. Hell, I think Kloff went easier on the men who actually killed and raped Raphael than he ever did on Aeroc. This is why it really disgusts me when people suggest that Kloff raped Aeroc “out of grief”.
In my personal belief, he was grieving not only the murder of Raphiel and baby but his calculated, happy and prosperous future as an outstanding member of society with a proper household. And not only that but he was also grieving for what Aeroc had become and what he dared to do to him. He was disappointed in him apart of the hate he felt Aeroc obligated to feel for him because of his dreadful actions. But he also exploited his grieving/revengeful husband status/disguise to grab the opportunity and do whatever he wanted to Aeroc because nothing prevented him from taking revenge and finally have him to himself, without prejudices or social standings. It was the perfect excuse and nobody, at least in his very close circle, would dare to say anything to him or to others. Martha even helped him taking care of Aeroc's pregnancy and the butler kept an vigilant eye on him.
At least, his kids were his punishment and dying alone.
I completely agree with you! Thank you for typing all that out, I think you captured both sides really well.
You're forgetting that the story takes place over many years, the characters and their motivations change overtime. I think it'd be wrong to say Kloff didn't initially rape Aeroc out hatred caused by his grief. Grief causes more emotions than just sadness, and Kloff wasn't sad he was ANGRY.
And honestly, yeah he would go harder on Aeroc than the others. They were paid to do it. And this idea that Aeroc (an Alpha at the time) couldn't understand that sending a group of paid thugs and criminals to intimidate an omega could end in rape and murder is willfully naive. Aeroc sent the orders, Aeroc paid the men; if weren't for him Raphael would still be alive. Its 100% his fault and Kloff's anger (not his action) were justified.
Also, this idea that OG Kloff didn't love Raphael and so wouldn't care that he died is really misguided. Bonding and love are not the same, and og Kloff and 2nd gen Kloff are different people so I don't care what 2nd gen Kloff said. Og Kloff didn't hesitate to marry Raphael and, whilst maybe not bonded, as we havent seen the story from Og Kloff's side we have no idea if he truly loved Raphael or not. We do know however that he cared for Raphael and that's enough. Not to mention, his CHILD was murdered, and we do know that Og Kloff wanted children so that alone explains his initial anger.
When you take the botched bonding into consideration, Og Kloff mostly likely was very conflicted with his feelings regarding Og Aeroc. Imagine finding yourself attracted to the person who facilitated the murder of your spouse and child because they wanted to take your spouse's place? Imagine the guilt over those feelings and the resentment for having this conflict in the first place. Kloff was tormented every single time he saw Aeroc, who was seemingly happy just to be near him.
The thing is, we don't see the story from Og Kloff's side and we don't see his motivations or emotions or mental state or how he views Aeroc. We only see Kloff's anger because that all he shows Aeroc. I think not being able to imagine what is was like for him shows little empathy on the readers part. In my opinion, both of them are shit and tortured each other and Raphael and the children are the only innocents here.
And honestly, Aeroc understanding that he did something wrong wouldn't change anything for Kloff. What was taken from him cannot be returned.
I definitely agree that Kloff was grieving, finding your pregnant spouse raped and murdered is unbelievably traumatizing. But for me, his so-called “revenge” against Aeroc felt way more sexually motivated than anything else. I mean, he didn’t rape the men who raped and killed Raphael, did he?
I also don’t think Kloff truly grappled with what he did to Aeroc until the third timeline, when he sees Aeroc before everything happened. Even in the first timeline, he still insists to his children (Ray specifically) that what he did was justified. Just because he was having hallucinations in the first timeline doesn’t mean he somehow came to the realization that what he did was disgusting.
And in the second timeline, he almost raped Aeroc to death. Sure, people might blame the imprint (I can’t remember if it carried over into that timeline), but honestly? This man is just gross. It’s so irritating when people defend Kloff by saying, “Well, why isn’t Aeroc getting hate too?”
I agree that both characters are flawed, but I still want to see Kloff actually suffer physically (dying alone is just not enough for me). The author is releasing a seventh volume, and I really want Aeroc and Ray to reunite without Kloff involved. It probably won’t happen since the story keeps pushing the fated-pair angle, but a girl can dream. It’ll likely be about one of the kids growing up.
Saying Aeroc was raped purely out of Kloff’s anger or grief is just wrong. Kloff doesn’t rape anyone else in the story, only Aeroc. If he raped people whenever he was angry, then sure, you could argue it was about anger. But he doesn’t.
I guess this is more a matter of opinion, but why the hell would he go harder on Aeroc than the men who physically tortured and raped his pregnant spouse? wtf kinda logic is that. Realistically, they would all get equal punishment.
"Also, this idea that OG Kloff didn't love Raphael and so wouldn't care that he died is really misguided." No one is denying that finding your pregnant spouse raped and murdered is deeply traumatizing. But using that trauma to justify him raping Aeroc “out of grief and love” is completely wrong. Do people seriously think Raphael was on his mind while he was raping and cumming inside Aeroc? How does that logic even work? Kloff did not love Raphael; it was confirmed in the third timeline. Hell he barely remembered anything about Raphael, just a "vague freshness."
The whole argument that “OG Kloff was conflicted” or that he felt guilt and resentment over his feelings doesn’t excuse anything either. That conflict is no one’s fault but Kloff’s. Yeah, I can imagine the guilt and shame hitting him when he realizes he enjoys raping Aeroc, but that just makes it worse, not more understandable.
"And honestly, Aeroc understanding that he did something wrong wouldn't change anything for Kloff. What was taken from him cannot be returned." Of course it wouldn’t, what Kloff lost can’t be undone. That point only came up because you asked why people don’t hate Aeroc equally, not because anyone thinks it would magically fix things.
"I agree that both characters are flawed, but I still want to see Kloff actually suffer physically (dying alone is just not enough for me). The author is releasing a seventh volume, and I really want Aeroc and Ray to reunite without Kloff involved. It probably won’t happen since the story keeps pushing the fated-pair angle, but a girl can dream. It’ll likely be about one of the kids growing up."
Omg I didn't knew that a 7th volumen is coming!!! Such good news!!!! And yes!!! Personally, I kinda want an adult Ray oriented novel because he was the first one to actually confront Kloff's lies and tell him off. But also to know about his relationship with Linus, who is much older than him. And, let's be honest, apart from the same eye and hair color, adult Ray doesn't look like Raphiel at all, he looks like Aeroc so it intrigue me how he could seduce that stoic man even if that principal motive was revenge too
Agreed, I’m so sad the Linus and ray novel is only physical, meaning there is no online version available. So likely the new volume won’t delve into that since there technically already is one. Also, based on her twitter it takes about 2-3 years for one volume, so it’s gonna be a while
Wait, Linus and Ray have a novel? I thought Linus and Raphiel had one... I'm confused.
I call Ray to Raphiel (Jr.), son of Kloff, because he changed his name and is less confusing. It's the same one as you mention?
2-3 years..
Well, it's understandable. Maybe it's about Ariel, Raphiel's brother because my heart can't take another timeline where everything is horrible hahhaa
Oops yea the one I’m talking about is the one you mentioned “And, let's be honest, apart from the same eye and hair color, adult Ray doesn't look like Raphiel at all, he looks like Aeroc so it intrigue me how he could seduce that stoic man even if that principal motive was revenge too” this storyline is a side story that’s only physical. I hope we can see it in the manhwa but I wouldn’t hold my breath I need to see what he said in his book about aeroc man.
'purely out of anger or grief' - Girl the first sentence was me saying that his motivations changed over time. Kloff's initial response was anger caused by grief, not one or the other it was both. Eventually it was Kloff just satisfying his sexual needs and tormenting Aeroc in the process.
And Kloff would go harder on Aeroc because he told the thugs to hurt Raphael - and the reason for it? Jealousy? Absolutely disgusting. And Aeroc did not just want them to 'intimidate' Raphael. Like intimidate how?Intimidate Raphael into doing what? He was already married and heavily pregnant. What could Aeroc want from Raphael when Raphael wouldn't have been able to leave Kloff at this point. No, Aeroc sent the thugs there to hurt him out of spite and jealousy and Aeroc clearly did not care how they did it until after it was done. I hate Kloff for what he did to Aeroc but I understand why Kloff wanted to hurt him. What Aeroc did is unforgivable and his reasoning was shallow. I can understand why he didn't punish them equally, I wouldn't have. (not saying I would have sa'd anybody, I'm just saying in court, ringleaders get higher jail sentences because they organised it).
It doesn't matter that Kloff didn't love Raphael, it doesn't negate the anger he would have felt towards Aeroc and clearly Kloff had a lot of hatred for him. I agree he most definitely enjoyed raping Aeroc, similarly in the way Aeroc enjoyed the idea of Raphael being out of the picture after his murder. Do you remember how Aeroc really thought, after he gave birth to the first child, everything was going to work out okay? He was happy to take Raphael's place then. If Kloff only saw Raphael as an incubator he wouldnt have cared but Kloff was disgusted by this and threw Aeroc out because he did care about Raphael.
The guilt I'm talking about is when he realised he was attracted to Aeroc (due to the botched bonding but he wouldnt known that at the time). Kloff was not sexually attracted to Aeroc because he wanted to be, it was caused by the improper bonding. The rape was a way for Kloff to act on this attraction without giving Aeroc any satisfaction or any of the love that Aeroc had wanted from Kloff when he sent those men to attack Raphael in the first place.
I remembered someone commented that the author also said that Kloff never loved Rapiel, is that true?
I don’t remember if she said it in an authors note in the manhwa, but Kloff himself does confirm he was not love with Raphael. In the third timeline, he doesn’t even remember much about Raphael, only a “vague freshness” about him. He also feels really guilty about what happened to Raphael in the first timeline, and feels he’s partly blamed for what happened. He tries his best to stay away from Raphael since he views him as someone innocent who got caught up in his and aerocs situation.
'purely out of anger or grief' - Girl the first sentence was me saying that his motivations changed over time. Kloff's initial response was anger caused by grief, not one or the other it was both. Eventually, it was Kloff just satisfying his sexual needs and tormenting Aeroc in the process."
That’s also where the line has to be drawn very clearly. Grief should never be treated as a reason for rape. Even if someone claims their decision to rape someone was driven by grief and anger, that explanation fails morally, psychologically, and legally. Grief might explain changes in someone’s emotions or behavior, but it does not explain, justify, or excuse rape, and it certainly wouldn’t hold up as a defense in court.
"I can understand why he didn't punish them equally, I wouldn't have. (not saying I would have sa'd anybody, I'm just saying in court, ringleaders get higher jail sentences because they organised it)." I guess we’re just going to have to agree to disagree, lmao. Not giving the same punishment to the men who physically tortured, raped, and killed your pregnant wife is completely insane to me, and shows that he specifically targeted Aeroc because of his sexual desire for him, and not the men who physically raped and killed Raphael.
"I hate Kloff for what he did to Aeroc but I understand why Kloff wanted to hurt him." Everybody understands why Kloff wanted to hurt him; if he had simply tortured him, abandoned him to the slums, or killed him, no one would have batted an eye. In fact, most people would have supported it. What I'm arguing is that the basis of "raping aeroc purely for grief and anger" is not possible, even if that rapist Kloff says it himself.
No one is denying that Aeroc did something horrible and unforgivable. You asked why people don’t hate him as much as they hate Kloff, and I answered that. No one is saying his actions weren’t terrible; he acknowledges them, he dies the same way Raphael did, and he’s thinking about him even as he’s dying after being raped to death. If he weren’t remorseful, no one would like him.
"Kloff was not sexually attracted to Aeroc because he wanted to be, it was caused by the improper bonding." Kloff was sexually attracted to him since the beginning.
Does anyone else feel like this story is being written by a teen? Or at least someone who has very little experience in writing. Like I'm not a big fan of the art but I don't think great art is necessary, however the writing needs to be good and this, well it just isnt. Almost like it's a fanfic or smth
if you hate it why bother to read it (●'◡'●)ﾉ
I think It's great go and write one yourself if ur that good at It hun.
Then go write and draw your own
Well first, I never said I hated it. Second, I have written and drawn a comic before, not that it makes a difference - I don't need to be a chef to know when the food tastes like shit.
Also, I have read A LOT of manga on this site and others, and this is by far not the worst in terms of writing. However I'm how far in and don't care about any of the characters and I already have a good idea how this going to end. Which is somewhat frustrating and disappointing. And now I'm slightly bored.
taraay mo dami mong alam hate is the right term from what you said bleeeeeh(づ￣ ³￣)づ
Mate, I just said it seemed like a fanfic. I read fanfics
They're both so violent and problematic. I ship mc with tattooed blondie, he's currently my fav character here
Me too. I ship with him (his hair is platinum grey)
Oh right, thanks lol
I dont understand how anyone can defend Aeroc. He literally paid to have Kloffs partner and child murdered because he wanted Kloff to himself. He's literally Bear from Obsession. They are both irredeemable selfish hateful people. And if Nikki decided to get revenge via torture for what Bear did to her, that wouldn't redeem Bear just make her as bad as him and even then its still Bear fault why this happened. So why has everyone forgiven Aeroc just because Kloff chose to get revenge? Aeroc is not a victim, in fact he escaped justice for what he did until Kloff came for him. Kloff's a rapist piece of shit. But so is Aeroc. I don't a give shit about him suffering. And I don't think Kloff deserves to suffer either, he already lost his partner and child.
He paid the wrong people to threaten him which was ao fuckin stupid and idiotic and is malevolent but he wasn't intending to have them murdered so savagely that's why he had the whole guilt aspect
Did you seriously watch it? This story doesn't relate or can be compared to that movie. Did you read the novel? Have you ever read some of the comments with spoilers explaining why Kloff is the only monster here?
If not, try to read them first.
firstly, he shouldn't have paid anyone. he should have spoken to Raphael or Kloff about his feelings and let them decide. secondly, why threaten Raphael? they were married and expecting a baby, Raphael would never have agreed to leave. Which is why got a group of thugs to go and make him leave, one way or the other. Killing Raphael was the only way to get him and the baby out of the picture and Aeroc knew that which is why he hired that group of thugs to do what he couldn't. He wanted a way to wash his hands of their murder and everyone in comments has bought into that. If it was your partner pregnant with your child that got raped and murdered would you care if the person who hired the killers felt bad afterwards? Would you believe that its npt their fault? Would you forgive them? Personally, I would hate them forever. I find it perplexing that people in the comments are upset that Kloff refuses to feel empathy for Aeroc. Why would he? Would you feel empathy?
I am talking about the comics only, whatever happened in the novel is irrelevant. If something different happened then its a different story and I am not talking about that one. And the themes of the movie match the this comic very well. They are both about a character unwilling to confess their feelings to their love interest and tries to force them into a relationship, though they go about it in slightly differen ways. Bear pays for a magical wish to force affection and Aeroc pays for a hitsquad to remove competition. Either way neither of them consider the wants and needs of their partner, both actions results in two people dying unnecessary deaths and both stories portray the mc being tortured to death by their love interests.
I do agree that what Areoc did cannot be forgiven but what kloff did was far worse than Areoc
He treated his own children as tools to torture Areoc and the children had to suffer from his own sin, he robbed himself and his own children from their mother.
On the surface it makes sense because it was done to Raphael. at least his child died without knowing how their father was a monster to the other children he even went mad and crippled one of them!
See the problem is not that Aeroc was a dick, because he was and he should have been punished for his mistake even if he didn't mean to kill Rafael. The issue is that Kloff didn't have to go to the extremes he did. Kloff got his revenge when he tricked Aeroc into losing everything. Aeroc would've spent his life on the streets and would eventually die alone there. However Kloff decided to rape Aeroc repeatedly (even getting him pregnant multiple times) and would physically, psychologically, and emotionally abuse Aeroc. That's no longer justice, that's torturing someone. Aeroc accepted being abused and raped because of his guilt, but Kloff had no right to do that and he justified himself because he actually was attracted to Aeroc but couldn't accept that attraction. Kloff acted like he didn't have a choice but to torture Aeroc, but ultimately he did have a choice to honor his dead partner and to live a decent life - however he decided to waste his life not only torturing another person but essentially forgetting his old partner. Kloff at the end wanted to bring Aeroc to live in the mansion, as if that wouldn't be a dick move to Rafael who was killed by Aeroc's actions.
From what I know about Obsession, this story is nothing like it. In the movie some guy makes a selfish wish and has to face the consequences of it. In this story, Aeroc makes a selfish decision that ends in tragedy, he's punished for the mistake, and then is tortured because Kloff is actually obsessed with Aeroc and is using the death of his spouse as an excuse to sleep with Aeroc without shame.
Totally agree! His punishment wasn't not suitable for the crime he committed. I couldn't't rephrase it like you did!! Or put it like you did! Thanks.
And Kloff is a 100% guilty for what he did to Aeroc, tricking him in to becoming an Omega and raping him. But living a life of poverty is not justice for murder. He should have been in prison. This is my problem. I am not saying Kloff was justified, this was 100% revenge and what he did was evil. But Aeroc is ALSO evil, he should have been executed or at least left to rot in prison. He does not deserve a happy ever after. But people in the comments are saying 'my baby my baby, you didnt deserve this', Aeroc does not deserve to breathe. Neither does Kloff. So why are people crying over him? I don't understand, why have people forgiven the murder?
Also, the whole story is him being tortured as punishment. Murdering someone is not a mistake, it was calculated and even if it was a mistake it doesnt matter, two innocent people were murdered and he's accountable for it. And this story is very similar to Obsession which is also a tragedy. The difference is that the writers do not excuse Bear for his choices, his suffering is simply the consequences of his own action. Just Aeroc, he caused his own misery due his selfishness. Let's not forget that Aeroc chose to return to the mansion and could have left whenever he wanted. He chose to remain.
I think the whole point is that both of them did irredeemable things they cannot take back, and that's probably why the story is giving them second timelines to fix things rather than doing it in the OG timeline. That being said, most readers feel more sympathy towards Aeroc because while he did not have good intentions towards Raphael, he certainly did not wish death upon him. It wasn't a scheme to remove an obstacle out of his way. Aeroc also was capable of recognizing the gravity of his mistakes and accepted the punishment and he did all that in the first timeline. That's why his second timeline is a happy one. Kloff on the other hand didn't have the courage to accept his own feelings so he spent a lot of time antagonizing Aeroc and mocking his feelings. He married Raphael because he looked similar to the person he was actually attracted to (not a kind thing to do, btw. Poor Rapheal, even before the tragedy struck). When shit hit the fan, he used revenge as an excuse to finally satisfy his lust for Aeroc. He continued to torture him in unspeakable ways and never acknowledged the part he played in all of this. Frankly, people would be way more sympathetic towards Kloff if all he wanted was just revenge, and if all he did was give Aeroc the same treatment that Raphael got. But he took it far far beyond that and most of the "revenge" was just his own selfish lust that destroyed many more lives than just Aeroc's (their children for example). Yeah, he has every right to hate Aeroc after what he did but there are so many ways to get revenge that don't require you to repeatedly and personally rape and beat the person you were lusting after all along. All of his children were born out of rape. He's terrible, always has been.
Ahhh....can you rest like seriously he was given another time line.....it looks like you faced something like this in reality so please shush it
No one is defending the wrong things Aeroc did… but you have to understand people hate Kloff because he dragged both Rapiel and Aeroc in this hell.
Kloff repeatedly used Rapiel to stir up Aeroc’s jealousy. It was obvious he wanted Aeroc, but instead of being honest he married Rapiel… when that didn’t fix his obsession he started humiliating and punishing Aeroc. Why did he had kiss Rapiel and then turn to look at Aeroc and smirk? Wow what a horrible human being. Kloff was obviously provoking him..
Aeroc was dumb honestly for not leaving Capital and getting away, for trying to be civil. Like imagineyour ex or the person who rejected you going to every place you’re attending and letting you see how happy they are.
“Hey Aeroc this is what you can’t have. Because you’re this disgusting pig who likes Alphas… unlike me who’s normal and got married.”
It took time for jealousy to twist Aeroc meaning this has been happening for months. That’s the sad part about book 1… we never see everything Kloff did to Aeroc that pushed him into madness. Aeroc is an unreliable narrator who was filled of shame and guilt so he emphasizes his mistake more than Kloff… but you see small details about Kloff attending all the places, forcing Aeroc to converse with Rapiel (in the novel this were all briefly mentioned.. but never elaborated)
I’m not saying you should feel sorry for Aeroc.. what he did was wrong, he deserves to go to jail. Not Kloff’s idea of justice..
If you read TL3 or Vol 5 Kloff in the end of the novel acknowledge that he created the devil.. he did the same shit to tl1 aeroc and tl3 aeroc. Humiliating him, gaslighting, belittling… the mental gymnastics and stress… but the difference was in tl1 Kloff used Rapiel making Rapiel the object for Aeroc to hate.. in tl3 he made Aeroc feel crazy for being inexperienced… this dumbass went to a brothel at the Bottom and got scared after realizing what was happening.
Aeroc is impulsive and dumb (at times), his father’s teaching taught him to never express himself. So his a bomb basically… what he did wasn’t right, but you have to understand if you’re weighing Kloff vs Aeroc. Kloff is more evil because all his actions were ill intent.
Aeroc gets more defense because he genuinely tried until the end to redeem himself. He let go of everything.. letting Kloff destroy him. He held no resentment towards Kloff. Unlike Kloff who had to brainwash himself and everyone around him that he’s this good person, but in reality his choices hurt his children. Blaine, Yohn, and Ivid had problems growing up, Aeroc’s addiction affected the twins… one of the twins is mute if I’m correct and had development delays growing up.. imagine being that kid. Did you really deserve to be born because your dad had to punish your mom?
For me… honestly Kloff should have been contented and stayed away from Aeroc. But he found it thrilling to rile Aeroc… to have power over him. He wanted his cake and eat it too.
What Aeroc did was unforgivable. But he did not pay for the omega to be raped and killed. He was stupid and make stupid decision, like literally. It can be seen throughout the whole story where he was easily deceived. Anyway, like I said, he was still unforgivable. BUT, that doesn’t warrant Kloff’s “torture” towards him. You can’t raped someone endlessly and still expect them to be sane and live with you their whole life. He can easily pay anyone to kill Aeroc but no, he tortured him endlessly with turning him into omega then raped and pregnancy. So yeah, the biggest piece of shit in the story is Kloff. He doesn’t even loved the omega. All he is doing is out of dumb ego shit. Kloff doesn’t deserve both Aeroc and the omega.
I could kiss you for this comment. It's rare to see discerning people and you're one of them. You understood every nuance, broke it down and left no notes. 10/10.
I love this story so much. It's literally my favorite BL Manhwa so you don't know how much this made me happy.
Thank you so much. This is my favorite too! This has been living in head space for years to the point I ended up writing fanfiction about it
The fact that you use obsession out of all the movies and compare it to this story.... They are not even remotely the same thing, and quite frankly very insensitive of you to do so as obsession highlighting the horror of a woman who lost her body autonomy due to incel selfish lust, obsession and desire over her. The conversations happening in this thread of comment show people understand the nuance of the story, hence why they root one over the other despite both of em were in the wrong at some point. I fear you don't need to be so hostile about why people had strong feeling off Kloff and your comment of "I don't feel bad over what happen to Aeroc" despite have read what he went thru after Raphiel death is diabolical to say the least. But nonetheless, believe what you want I guess
To be clear, Kloff could have sent Aeroc to jail from the beginning. However he decided to take down Aeroc through tricks, which is why I say that if Kloff wanted justice served, he already had justice through his own actions. He even had other chances to send Aeroc to prison because of his economic and political influence, but he didn't because he was more focused on satiating his lust. You are free to hate both Aeroc and Kloff, I say more power to you. But I understand why people like Aeroc more and show support to him. Aeroc learned from his first life that what he did was wrong, he accepted all punishments (abuse, rape, neglect, etc.) despite the fact that he didn't have to. As you said, Aeroc could have left, but he didn't because he still felt guilt and love for Kloff. When Aeroc began his 2nd life he was determined to help Kloff and Rafael get together, doing anything to ensure that they would be happy in the new timeline. If Aeroc had continued to pursue Kloff in the 2nd timeline, I am sure more readers would dislike him. But because he didn't, he's seen more favorably when compared to Kloff.
Facts. Her comment and the comparison was diabolical. I couldn't even read the whole thing because I didn't want to get mad. I try to refrain from throwing insults but some of the comments I see on here make me realize the world is filled with some really strange people. Imagine if someone like this was given a chance to make laws or pass judgement. Yikes.
I don't understand how you are that upset about the comparison. I think it was pretty apt.
The relationship dynamics are different but the themes are the same. Bear and Aeroc both make a selfish choice to force their love interests into a relationship. Bear takes away Nikki's autonomy, Aeroc takes away Kloffs husband and child. It is not insensitive to say that they are equally heinous actions. Bears choice worked in his favour whilst Aerocs choice did not, but that does not diminish the gravity of the choice that he made. So no, I don't feel bad for him. Was Kloff right to torture Aeroc? Of course not, he tortured Aeroc out of his own sick desires. But simply suffering does not redeem a person, it doesn't make up for what he did, justice is not karma it doesn't balance out like that. Rapiel never got justice for what happened to him. People keep bringing up what Kloff did to Aeroc but Kloffs actions only reflect Kloffs immorality not Aerocs; Aerocs morality is based on his choices and his choices alone. It's not hatred of Kloff that upsets me, its excusing Aeroc when he has not earnt forgiveness. The real victims of this story are the people who did not have any say in the outcome, that's Rapiel, the baby and the kids. I feel bad for them. The other two belong in hell.
Its the not the hatred of Kloff I dislike, he deserves to be hated. But Aeroc was not dumb, he was selfish and arrogant and willing to hurt his family to get what he wanted. Even if you want to argue that Kloff 'stirred up' Aeroc's jealousy, that does not justify or excuse what Aeroc did. I think it's infantilising to say that Kloff pushed him into madness; it strips Aeroc of his agency, shifts blame and implies Kloff is at fault for Rapiel's death when he wasn't. Regarding Aerocs suffering, if you put out selfishness and brutality into the world, personally, I cannot sympathise when it comes back to haunt you. In the first timeline Aeroc did not try to redeem himself in my view. He should have confessed to the crime the minute it happened, instead he hid behind his money. He could have left when Kloff took over his home but he chose to stay to try and get what he wanted. Aeroc was not a good person in the first timeline, Kloffs revenge was evil but his anger was understandable. And when we look at tl2 Kloff, he's still a piece of shit but not evil like he was before and so we can see that Kloffs desire to torture Aeroc is tied into the murder of Rapiel. The experiences shaped the characters, Rapiel's death made Kloff a torturer and Aeroc caused Rapiels death. So, I do not think the story should be viewed through 'Kloff vs Aeroc'. I dislike the idea of ranking pain and suffering and 'whoever suffered more is the better person' / 'whoever caused more suffering is the worse person' because choosing to inflict any amount of pain is the problem. Kloff chooses to hurt Aeroc more, but Aerocs choice resulted in the death of two people - so what is more important in this ranking of good and evil, intent or outcome? To forgive Aeroc but not Kloff, in my opinion, diminishes the value of the lives took. I don't think we should forgive either one.
This is a really weird hill to die on. Aeroc did not force Kloff into a relationship. It's the other way around. Aeroc was the one who had his autonomy stolen from him. Kloff only lost a spouse which he did not even love in the first place. Rapiel was just a pawn in all of this, a poor excuse for Kloff to perpetuate his sadism and his twisted desires.
Aeroc paid to have Rapiel intimidated, he basically said "Teach him a lesson" but approached the wrong people and ended up with a disastrous outcome.
No matter what his intent was, what he did was wrong and he should have been handed to the law after being stripped of his wealth and title.
Kloff had no right to alter Aeroc's biology, beat, abuse and rape him repeatedly for years and deny him access to his own children. If you cannot understand that then unfortunately, there's no hope for you.
Look, jesus fucking christ you clearly very much upset that people overwhelmingly rightfully felt more sympathy with Aeroc and that's fine, but my issue with is you correlates it with Obsession as it is not even remotely the same nor even the dynamic you're saying. You saying Aeroc is Bear? But Bear rape Nikki, took her autonomy, was the one who held more power in the dynamic, Bear was never ever driven by guilt to save her nor remorse of what he did, it was pure Obsession (who would have guess). And he killed himself leaving Nikki to deal with his fucked up, it was a story that highlights injustice spesifically targeted toward woman, not of two man with status and deranged relationship. So yes, it is insensitive because I believe that movie had far more lesson and conversation that can be talked about far better than being a point of argument over toxic yaoi manga online.
Furthermore you can just say you felt sorry for Raphael and their kids, it's that's simple, no one will argue with you as they mostly will agreed. But this is not a story mainly focus about them now isn't?
I don't care what your stand are with the main characters but saying "Simply suffering does not redeem a person" is a diabolical statement and I hope you never ever go thru even similar hell (who are you to say that when you don't even allow others opinions on the matter?) , that said say what you want or believe so. Others have said their piece far better than I do, but it seem you unwilling to engage in a conversation so why do I even try