I've seen a lot of discourse about this, and I'm curious what other people think on here (=・ω・=)
Some people argue that straight women who enjoy BL, yaoi, bara, or are aroused by media featuring gay men are fetishizing queer men. Others say it's more complicated that some are drawn to seeing men express emotional vulnerability or intimacy in ways they don't often see in heterosexual media, and that this doesn't automatically make it fetishization.
I've also seen people say lesbians can fetishize gay men, and that straight or gay men can fetishize lesbians, so it doesn't seem like this is something that's limited to one group
Where do you personally draw the line between simply enjoying queer media, or finding it attractive versus actually fetishizing queer people? Does intent matter more, or is it about how someone treats real lgbtq people? I'd like to hear different perspectives
Reading bl or gl isn't fetishizing it. Objectifying a gay person is what fetishizing it. When you look at LGBTQIA+ people and think of them as sexual objects, that's fetishizing.
I think the fetishism comes down to when people would involve real people in it who are not in any relationship or have said anything about their sexuality. Shipping regardless of the 2 being platonic or not is just a normal thing in fandom, but shipping them for the sake of only being queer is fetishism. Fetishism is also when people would get "too excited" Over the sight of a real life queer couple. Reducing their relationship to "bl/gl" Like they're fiction. One can fangirl or fanboy, but there's a line to not cross and that's their sex life.
I've been thinking bout this for a while especially bc i read someone on this website say that women have the right to fetishize gay men since women already have to deal with being sexualized and objectified all the time. As a woman,, idk how to feel about that since i think is unfair for men and it would make us women no better. When i was younger i used to think of Yaoi as an escape fantasy for my horny ahh although i didnt understand why? i think is because it felt more comfortable than a straight story/smut bc of the power roles ykwim? Since what was available was degrading women most of the time...I believe IT IS that deep and that if u look close enough there's always some sexism everywhere and the only way it didnt feel like there was sexism is when i was reading yaoi, but of course theres also sexism in yaoi LoL though compared to straight stories it definitely makes it more comfortable to read about a couple that stands equal when it comes to gender and expectation. Anyways, i find it weird to fetishize any group/community overall, i think it comes to a point where you realize real life couples and lgbtq are wayy different than fiction and me personally i find no interest in them since i think of them as real people so naturally it wouldn't be my business to pay attention to queer relationships as long as their happy amirite? I'm not sure what you mean by "intent matters" but for what I've seen across the years, young people exposed early to yaoi start to compare real gay people to gay fiction and start projecting real people onto fiction which causes the fetishization(??? Sorry I'm bilingual) but later on with more real life queer exposure i think they get the hint real life is totally different and yaoi stays more as an escape for gender equality in relationships ahh idk what im trying to say anymore I'm drunk rn can't really think but drunk words sober thoughts no?
Straight women either read BL bc its not normalized in the patriarchal society we live in and appreciate the love between two men but at the same time some straight fujos can just fetishize it because of their orientation and depiction on them in real life. (this can also make them dislike GL content).
As long as it don't affect your perception of reality, it don't matter what kinda media you consume and how you look at or feel about fictional men touching each other.
i wanna believe that its down to how people treat gays and lesbians in real life? i dont see an issue with people enjoying yaoi or bara within reason and not try to reflect what they read onto people in real life. an example being, seeing a gay couple and fantasising about them or asking inappropriate questions without their consent such as their sex lives or who tops and who bottoms or personal opinions on prefering effeminate gays over two muscular gays in a sense.
that’s where i believe the very niche line threshold is
Exactly. It's enjoyment vs objectification. Do you see them as human beings or as a means to an end. I think this also goes for people who consume queer media but then don't believe queer people deserve human rights. If you can't recognize their humanity whether fiction or in reality then that is an objectification of a person and their experience.
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Reading bl or gl isn't fetishizing it. Objectifying a gay person is what fetishizing it. When you look at LGBTQIA+ people and think of them as sexual objects, that's fetishizing.
I think the fetishism comes down to when people would involve real people in it who are not in any relationship or have said anything about their sexuality. Shipping regardless of the 2 being platonic or not is just a normal thing in fandom, but shipping them for the sake of only being queer is fetishism. Fetishism is also when people would get "too excited" Over the sight of a real life queer couple. Reducing their relationship to "bl/gl" Like they're fiction. One can fangirl or fanboy, but there's a line to not cross and that's their sex life.
I've been thinking bout this for a while especially bc i read someone on this website say that women have the right to fetishize gay men since women already have to deal with being sexualized and objectified all the time. As a woman,, idk how to feel about that since i think is unfair for men and it would make us women no better. When i was younger i used to think of Yaoi as an escape fantasy for my horny ahh although i didnt understand why? i think is because it felt more comfortable than a straight story/smut bc of the power roles ykwim? Since what was available was degrading women most of the time...I believe IT IS that deep and that if u look close enough there's always some sexism everywhere and the only way it didnt feel like there was sexism is when i was reading yaoi, but of course theres also sexism in yaoi LoL though compared to straight stories it definitely makes it more comfortable to read about a couple that stands equal when it comes to gender and expectation. Anyways, i find it weird to fetishize any group/community overall, i think it comes to a point where you realize real life couples and lgbtq are wayy different than fiction and me personally i find no interest in them since i think of them as real people so naturally it wouldn't be my business to pay attention to queer relationships as long as their happy amirite? I'm not sure what you mean by "intent matters" but for what I've seen across the years, young people exposed early to yaoi start to compare real gay people to gay fiction and start projecting real people onto fiction which causes the fetishization(??? Sorry I'm bilingual) but later on with more real life queer exposure i think they get the hint real life is totally different and yaoi stays more as an escape for gender equality in relationships ahh idk what im trying to say anymore I'm drunk rn can't really think but drunk words sober thoughts no?
Straight women either read BL bc its not normalized in the patriarchal society we live in and appreciate the love between two men but at the same time some straight fujos can just fetishize it because of their orientation and depiction on them in real life. (this can also make them dislike GL content).
it’s about how someone treats queer people irl. Anyone who says reading bl/gl is fetishizing needs to get off tik tok .
As long as it don't affect your perception of reality, it don't matter what kinda media you consume and how you look at or feel about fictional men touching each other.
Ur pfp is frying me
i wanna believe that its down to how people treat gays and lesbians in real life? i dont see an issue with people enjoying yaoi or bara within reason and not try to reflect what they read onto people in real life. an example being, seeing a gay couple and fantasising about them or asking inappropriate questions without their consent such as their sex lives or who tops and who bottoms or personal opinions on prefering effeminate gays over two muscular gays in a sense.
that’s where i believe the very niche line threshold is
Exactly. It's enjoyment vs objectification. Do you see them as human beings or as a means to an end. I think this also goes for people who consume queer media but then don't believe queer people deserve human rights. If you can't recognize their humanity whether fiction or in reality then that is an objectification of a person and their experience.