Can we talk about how crisp the pacing is? Not a single panel or episode is wasted. I was expecting the backstory to go on for at least 5 episodes but it wrapped up in under 3 while still divulging tons of relevant lore. The improvement from Red Candy shows.
yes!!!! so many manhwas DRAGGGG on their pacing , esp for back stories. i loved LITC and idiots don’t catch colds, but the backstories were so incredibly slow. this finished it in such good time!
The more we learn about Lorenzo, the more frustrating the rape scenes are to be honest. It’s increasingly clear that he’s more than capable of distinguishing right and wrong (he’s twisted from his upbringing, but not born a psychopath), but he’s okay with being ruthless as long as it allows him to tear down his grandfather’s empire.
He knows he was an abused child and that both his father and grandfather are pieces of shit. All of his misdeeds had a justification behind them (even if relatively innocent people like June got caught in the crossfire). He’s ultimately hellbent on bringing down the bad guys and living his own life.
The rapes just feel out of character in comparison. He knows he was abused and he has a lot of self-awareness, but he turns into an abuser (rapist) anyway? One could argue that he hurt Rian because he was worried he might ruin his plans (to be fair, he did ruin them to some extent with the Umbra Project) and wanted to punish him, but I feel like his reaction could have been handled differently. The way he went about it doesn’t feel like it fits with his generally logical, cool-headed character. It also lessens the impact of his backstory if I’m being real.
Just my reading on him anyway. I’m also bored of rape in BL so I’m biased.
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It was really awful. Being played like a pawn to participate in your own kidnapping and eventually getting your abusive parent killed, and the image with the gun hinting that he was made into a murderer when he was still a child...
And yet, I was bored for the first time reading this story. With each chapter, you expect to feel some kind of emotion, even if it's disturbance or disgust. It felt like there was a gap in the story. And it's not like Enzo to censor himself. I have no idea why he would lie now, when he's been kind of honest with Rian since the beginning. Well, maybe it's about things that he doesn't know or remember... or understand?
But on the other hand, it felt somehow realistic. The story of abuse is always boring. There's no glory. And for him, it was from one kind of abuse right into another. So even though he was a normal kid, and while as an adult he can somehow discern right from wrong, he's not equipped with the compass to follow any kind of moral code. Why would he even care, with his main goal being destruction? He's obviously not a born psycho, but eventually a raised one.
He hid his attraction, threatened Rian, and then hurt him based on his own assumptions when Rian acted the way he always does. I don't think you can find some sort of justification there, as in within the framework of this fiction. It wasn't solely about work and power games either. Enzo had emotions involved, twisted emotions, yet emotions nonetheless.
And that's where it becomes sad and hopeful. He might actually regret what he's done.
Thanks always for the detailed replies! Yeah I see where you’re coming from. The rape’s done, can’t undo that. But I absolutely would love to see Lorenzo showing genuine regret for raping Rian sometime later in the story as you said. That would be a SIGNIFICANT character development.
And I love your detailed comments! Uh, I really want to see Enzo feel that genuine regret, still in character but feeling that soul-crushing remorse. One of the best things about these two is their mental strength. No matter what happens, they never see themselves as victims. Seriously, they just walk it off! So yeah, I guess once it hits him, his regret's gonna translate into protectiveness instead of self-destruction... hopefully ╮(￣▽￣)╭
I personally think it makes perfect sense. From the beginning, Enzo looked down on Rian as a dirty slut he didn't want to have anything to do with. He knew that Rian was up to something against him, but in the end he couldn't resist his charm and Rian won his heart (or dick). From Enzo's perspective, it's like this: „you knew all the risks and still "made" me want you? You knew the risks, here are the consequences.“ Not to mention that their first sex was under the influence of drugs. None the less, Enzo raped Rian primarily for 2 reasons: bcs he could and bcs Rian deserved punishment. Nothing stopped Enzo from raping Rian and he knew that Rian wasn't someone who would be brought to his knees by it. He knew that he could do it and in principle it wouldn't hurt Rian in any way. It fits in with the fact that if a person grows up in a violent environment, their boundaries are shifted. At the same time, it also pushes his cold and calculating profile precisely bcs he knew that Rian wouldn't cry now and be sad in the corner, saying, „oh noooo, I was raped.“ Another reason is that he explicitly forbade Rian from having sex and he did, so the motive for the punishment is relatively simple
I like your read on it, I’ll take it :)
Yeah Rian is a king for basically just walking it off. Fits with his character too at least (secret agents would presumably have more mental strength and fortitude than the average citizen).
If we live in Enzo's mind, yeah. Are all the other characters going around and raping others because they can, and since they're exacting punishment? Is it that kind of universe?!
I would argue that their universe seems safer than our reality, and yet Enzo did it. His assumptions, actions, and reactions aren't really Rian's problem until Enzo makes them so. We've seen Rian threaten Enzo, but has he been beating him within an inch of his life?
Well, it fits Enzo's character and his motives are kind of clear, but it's not reasonable, sane, or out of love. As we saw in this chapter and in all those sentences, Enzo rejected the word 'love,' believing it's not something to save anyone.
The irony will be that it's the exact thing that's gonna save him, not his brutality or twisted plans, or because he CAN be cruel and twisted!
Like sorry, but I don't think it's always necessary to write a big disclaimer, saying that RAPE IS BAD AND I'M NOT ADVOCATING IT. I think it's pretty clear from the context that I'm not saying that Enzo did what he did for reasonable and/or sane reasons. I'm not saying that bcs he had a sad childhood it's now ok, as it usually is in manhwas. I'm just saying that it fits his character exactly to me.
Another thing is that in manhwas (I repeat, not in reality) there is rape and rape. Here, the bottom character is simply someone who has had his life threatened countless times and "some rape" won't do anything to him. It's different from the usual bottom character, who acts as the most stereotypical female victim (e.g. in Jinx). I'm neither fan nor an advocate of rape in manhwa, but given Enzo's violent mannerisms and how obviously jealous and possessive he is, I'd probably be more surprised if he didn't rape Rian lmao
And I also wouldn't compare their characters and how Rian treated him and vice versa. They are literally ying and yang, complete opposites and it's clear that Rian will treat him completely differently
+ I think we're not talking about any love here (yet), just the desire to possess something he desire
Oh, sorry, I thought you were one of those who believe that since Enzo warned Rian, he had it coming. My bad.
And I totally agree with most of what you said in your second comment, other than some little bits here and there ╮(￣▽￣)╭
That's okay, mistakes happens, haha.
Tbh, he kinda had it comingxd He knew how fucked up up Enzo was, but I think Rian is more afraid of Enzo breaking his rib rather than of fucking himxp But obv that doesn't mean Enzo was in "right" to do it
"Tbh, he kinda had it comingxd"
Hey you, give me back my apology, lol
Noooooo! Oh well, I both agree and disagree.
Rian's priorities are really interesting (￣∇￣") but still, noooooo! I’m okay with coercion in fiction, but not THAT. It was so iiiiiiish, Rian didn’t see it coming. Although the second time, he provoked Enzo knowingly... after being baited to be provocative?! Huh, these two are so weird
Well, Rian is an agent who risks his own neck on almost every mission- maybe he was relieved that now he only risked his own ass lmaooo
Idk, maybe I'm taking it too much from the point of view that Rian doesn't give a damn about it and isn't traumatized, so why make anything more of it, yk? And at the same time, yeah, Rian deliberately wanted Enzo to desire him- Enzo initially despised him:D So that's why it's such a gray area, these two
Okay, life versus ass, easy win, lmao
Though I think Rian actually cares about what happened, but yeah, he's not THAT traumatized. I guess we'll see how traumatized he really is once he decides to bottom for Enzo. Unless he's high or one of them is dying, he's gonna eventually show it.
And that last bit, noooo, let's not go there. No matter how hard Rian, the master seducer, honey-trapped Enzo, what happened is not his fault. And he really didn't know how fucked up Enzo is until the bar scene, so even putting too much effort into his mission, lol, is not a real mistake. Enzo's like a disaster! And even on the balcony, when they first met, Enzo could've walked away... but what did he do?! Not JUST walking away!
Oh, no, no, I'm not saying that this is in any way, shape or form Rian's fault. I'm just saying that it wasn't like he had no idea what he was getting into:D Even now we see that he's still continuing the mission and even let Enzo finger him, so he's probably at peace with it to some extent, yk
Oh, I get it. Well, aside from his horniness, Rian seems to have something to prove to himself and, to some extent, to Enzo. On the other hand, in the repetitive scene from Enzo's childhood in that movie, we see his fascination with the blond lover who claims they would never leave as long as there's love. Although he later omits the 'love' part, he's still a romantic who's unconsciously obsessed with that and wants Rian to stay with him no matter what. Rian's stubbornness is actually digging his own grave deeper!
So even if now, he intends to pull a knight in shining armor move to save Enzo and then leave like a cowboy, Enzo's not gonna let him~ hehehe, that's gonna be fun (⌒▽⌒)
Why are some of you surprised about Lorenzo having a sob backstory? We’ve known since at least *chapter 5* featuring his grandfather that he had grown up with some abuse. Not to mention the way he talks about his grandfather at other times. His father also being abusive is new information, but not something that came out of nowhere.
Bro I did NOT think Matteo would be the one who carved those scars into his back. Holy hell. Lorenzo stood absolutely no chance. Rian might be the first ‘normal’ person he’s actually met.
Ch54 and 55…I am tired boss. What’s wrong with this genre?
(Not against noncon when the story is dark to begin with, but when the past 53 chapters have been green flag it’s just so jarring and unnecessary.)
Lorenzo as a kid IS SO FREAKING CUUUUTE.
Also this chapter puts his likely age around 25-26.
So cute! Seeing that look on his little face, awwww~
We dunno, its said 20 something years ago, and there were hits in one of the authors post that Enzo is likely older but they deleted it immediate saying they want their relationship to be something where age doesn't matters or something. But I think Enzo being older or younger both will be fun on its own way.(⌒▽⌒)
Hints* immediately* typooo ToT
I said 25-26 because he got the back scars when he was 6 and he doesn’t look like he would be any younger than 5 in the flashback, so he probably got them shortly after meeting his grandfather. The flashback is also solidly 20 years in the past.
I can’t see Lorenzo being older than Rian tbh. Rian himself doesn’t come off as being that young.
Oh but yeah you’re right cause I missed that it says 20-something years in the past lol. For some reason my brain read solid 20 years
Well Rian was 27 by the end of Red Candy so he is highest 28 if enough time passed but personally I would love it more if Enzo turns out to be younger
Happens happens
He is a bit younger, it seems, probably 24-26. How Hanse's been keeping them equal, we should have guessed there wouldn't be much age difference. I thought the AU was a hint that there is a big gap, and also Enzo's attitude and lack of profile. I mean, if he's been active for years, there has to be something about him going around. Anyway, 2-3 years makes more sense, equality-wise. And now, I think the AU is more about that shadow thing.
Anything is possible and all possiblity seems fun so I am up for whatever it is (≧▽≦)
Until they show you their passports, lol, and Rian's still gonna give a fake one!
Aww, now I want to see them on the run and Rian giving a fake ID to Enzo, then the idiota master falling harder for him (⌒▽⌒)
I honestly love that they didn’t do full anal and just kept to fingers. Different sex acts are underrated.
Please bros…this is torture…just fucking kiss already…