Gotta say, ch 19 has to be like the worst place for the translations to end off on. Hopefully we get more soon. He was finally going to be given the stern reason he needs to get over his crush since he's getting married now. Now hopefully he can move on and devote all his time to the seme. He loves him already anyways... He's just emotionally constipated and a little hung up on his crush to realize it, but he's already thinking of them equally in his head. Like "which one is making me feel this way?" and "how can you both just be chatting it up right now?". It's both of them that are making his heart go off. He's also putting the seme on a pedestal and always thinking about how he's too good for him. Clearly the issue isn't attraction
I think this is more gray than people are acknowledging. Like, with that being a part of the story even...
It's not like he just raped her on their first night, he had just set up a deal between them that she agreed to that he would try to get her pregnant within a month. Sure, she wasn't expecting the sex right there and then and she takes issue with that he was rough, wording it as that he did whatever he wanted, but to say she didn't consent to the sex seems off. It was within her own interest and she did agree to the deal. She doesn't even know yet why he treated her like that the first time. I mean, WE know that in his head he was being an asshole for personal reasons, but she just looks back on it and goes "?" right now. She just said that. She's noted the change in his behavior since literally the next day, since he realized she was a virgin.
I think it's important that he's realized he did wrong, is actually looking at her now and is trying to do right. And that matters because it's explicitly a part of the story that she does not hate him for anything he's done. She just said that. She's not feeling raped, he just irritated her that night. It's not part of the story that she feels raped, it's just not. I'm sure he's going to face some backlash in a bit though, because she was just thinking about why he was acting like that at first and contemplated that it might be because of the rumors. So I see it maybe being a hurdle in a second where he has to make up for it. Not for the "rape", but for the fact that he believed the rumors for a time.
This is fiction so it doesn't have to reflect real life right and wrong. But in real life if you coerce someone to have sex, like your boss says "have sex or you will lose your job" and you say "yes" it's not consensual sex. She's "alright" with it cause of the values within the story of a fictiona historical society.
I don't think the comparison is accurate. She's a competitive girlboss that agreed to the terms with the intent to win that later outright says that she isn't mad at him for anything he's done so far. In this scenario in which she was given the choice to have sex with him to get what she wants, we've been told directly how she feels about that and her concern seems more about the lack of care he had at first rather than the sex itself. She notably comments about how gentle he is after that and clearly considers it pleasing.
The scenario you're comparing to is a lot more forced since nothing in it implies that the person is actually impartial to the sex and may even be okay with it. All we're told in your scenario is that the person was told they will lose their job if they don't have sex with their boss. The boss also isn't fleshed out in the same way the ML is either, with the ML actually not being a bad guy and treating her right now and regretting his misunderstanding.
Whether he's a good or bad guy is irrelevant. Whether she agrees is also irrelevant
It's okay in their fictional society. But this behavior is not okay in real society. It's coercion.
"Sexual coercion is when a person pressures, tricks, threatens, or manipulates someone into sex. It is a type of sexual assault because even if someone says yes, they are not giving their consent freely."
In the United States this behavior may be legally considered abuse, assault, or sexual harassment depending on the state law. He says"have sex with me or I will not give you a divorce". Calling it a bet doesn't really change that he is holding her legal status and life hostage.
If you want to learn more about consent and coercion in real life, here is a good article. I don't mean to be condescending but it's really important that we all know how to identify abuse in case we encounter it. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/sexual-coercion
"In the United States this behavior may be legally considered abuse, assault, or sexual harassment depending on the state law. He says"have sex with me or I will not give you a divorce". Calling it a bet doesn't really change that he is holding her legal status and life hostage."
It's not just that "he's calling it a bet", it actively is. And they wrote a contract so I disagree on the legal aspect. Honestly, it feels like you're projecting and arguing a possible outcome/an imagined scenario in which things were perceived more negatively by the people involved rather than the actual reality of what we read. I understand that coercion exists and what it is, but the relevant rebuttal here is that that isn't the emotional context of the situation, as I've already pointed out.
Forgot one more thing:
It's also not just that "she agreed", it's that she agreed and FEELS in accordance with that. We have the emotional context here, she's not mad at him. She's not feeling raped, she's feeling confusion about his intentions and like she's going to try to win the deal. Competitive. That's just the story.
Her emotions impact her health and whether she's taking lasting harm from his actions. It impacts their relationship going forward. But it doesn't change his actions.
By abusing his legal power over her as his spouse his is being abusive. From the moment it says "have sex with me OR" I won't give you something you need, or you will face consequences. He is doing something morally and legally wrong. It's not as wrong as more harmful types os assault and coercion but it IS wrong. "Feeling raped" is not the measure of consent.
It's like if you go up to someone and slap them across the face. Well they didn't feel that hurt, it was a light slap, we laughed it off, they didn't feel threatened. That's all good but it's still not okay to do that.
"It's like if you go up to someone and slap them across the face. Well they didn't feel that hurt, it was a light slap, we laughed it off, they didn't feel threatened. That's all good but it's still not okay to do that."
I'm having trouble imagining a scenario in which you would slap someone across the face lightly and the person would *genuinely* not care. In that context, the "laughter" would most likely be a coping mechanism. But if it was light, if the person didn't care that the person did it and if they didn't feel threatened then I really don't see how you could say "it's still not okay", it'd clearly be a joke. It wouldn't really be your business to step in and be like "hey, you shouldn't slap people", it's not a big deal to anyone involved as you've set for the background here, you'd be overstepping and imposing your own morals on someone else's personal relationship.
There are people who are made of sterner stuff that don't get effected by things that you would perceive as going too far. Like, choking someone is wrong too but I doubt you'd tell someone who consensually chokes their S.O. not to do that "because it's bad to choke people and you could face legal repercussions". That legal repercussions could be involved in only relevant if it's relevant.
I don't think I need to clarify, but just in case I'll make it clear that by "choking", I mean sexually.
I keep seeing so much sympathy for Wilhelm and what none of you realize is that you're falling for the same shit she did. His tragic past is real, don't get me wrong, but he knowingly weaponized it to get Reinhardt to feel sympathy and trust for him. He has reasons, but his approach in everything is to manipulate/distort the truth. To keep her blind to the things he's doing to keep her close. Yes, you could say he "loves her" and I'm sure that's what he thinks as well, but seeing everything as an ominiscisent reader, it's kinda hard not to see it as obsession. He literally views her as his goddess and reason for living. He attempted to kill Dietrich because he was an obstacle in her looking at him as a prospective partner. Despite knowing how much Dietrich meant to her and despite seeing how much it broke her. Some of you are forgetting his reaction when Dietrich was announced "dead". She ran past him in hysterics and he got *mad*... He was upset that she was paying attention to Dietrich's death instead of himself... It upset him that she wouldn't pay attention to him since he had done what she told him to. This guy has had Dietrich's cloth that she gave him since then, all while playing innocent by her side. Because he couldn't stand that Dietrich had her cloth. She just confirmed that he felt nothing for Dietrich, he found out he's still alive and drew his blade at him... Despite how well Dietrich took care of him.
Listen. Wilhelm's real character is one who will do any horrible, inhumane thing without even blinking an eye to get what he wants. Sure, his past probably brought him there, but it doesn't change that in practice, he acts like a monster. He is willing to break Reinhardt to have her. Not just willing, he did it and then played the pillar of support for her through what he was putting her through. If you guys think it's okay for him to have tried to kill her childhood friend and crush to be next to her, then you're falling for the facade he is actively using. He's trying to come across innocent/victimized so that you and Rein will be looking at all that stuff he suffered through while he schemes in the background. Those moments where he gets crazy eyes at people? That's who he really is. He's insane and will literally just cold blooded kill people to get what he wants. He has the predatory nature/thought process of a serial killer.
Rein knows how he is now because he screwed up and got caught in all his background shit. She is now looking at the real Wilhelm and is saying "holy shit. No thanks" because she herself is part of the collateral damage in obtaining her. Which honestly is probably the right choice, even if he would treat her well if she chose him. Y'all only think of that, but here pretty soon we'll see how he treats her in the face of rejection. Do you think he won't be willing to harm her to have her? He already has. He's going nuts already just from her returning to Luden... Won't surprise me if he kidnaps her.
As far as the spoilers, I'll wait and see. The dream just now does show that she had no intention of abusing the child. I think you're all forgetting that in her right mind, she's a great person, but she has a lot of mental health issues and now she's pregnant. Post partum depression is a hell of a thing. Even if it's *not* that, we see that he just had her freak out and faint by trying to manipulate her with her mother's jewels. Him bringing them was on purpose, there was an emphasis put on him telling them to pack them up. In the state he was in, it looks like it was to manipulate her. He didn't look like he had good intentions. He looks like he's going crazy. If that wasn't clear right off the bar, it was made clear when even after finding out Dietrich was alive, so coming face to face with his own machinations, he still chose to leave those gems for her to see. It's like, "oh really? You were just innocently leaving a loving gift for her while you were looking crazy AF in the palace and then after drawing a sword on Dietrich"? But it's always presented as a what-if. Like maybe he really did care about Dietrich (his excuse to Rein) or maybe he really was trying to get that back for her (though really he knows it's important to her and how he is makes him take advantage of that)
Such an amazing insight lost in yhe void of mangago
Thank you ヾ(❀╹◡╹)ﾉ~
The explanation is long but real and deep (๑•ㅂ•)و✧
Thank you ٩(๑❛ᴗ❛๑)۶
You're thinking what I'm thinking
Exactly
PLUS...
.. he had her father's sword and refused to give it to her, so I am with you on that manipulation front.
Even when I read the spoilers. I still did not blame the FL cause I believe she is a high-functioning traumatized woman running on sheer revenge. I remember a scene when she discovered Dietrich's cloth on him. She asked him if there was anything else he was hiding from her cause her heart could not take any betrayal and he looked at her with tears in his eyes and said no. That there made me shiver.
..and you're right, he can hurt her to keep her beside him cause I think he has some sought of ownership. After all, he was the one that brought her back to life or sth of that nature...
I will never blame the FL on how she treats her child in the future cause I know her mental health is barely hanging on. The fact she's not suicidal is the best she can do. People should not expect her to behave "normal"... she's alive, that's it..
Idk how exactly it'll go in the story, but why not give the child.to the nannies and have as little to do with it as possible? It's better than to abuse it.
God this is one of the few rational comments I have seen for this story-
The way that people are complaining how the story is becoming so dark even though it’s set up to be this way. The whole myth is foreshadowing how their “love” will play out and people suddenly bashing on the story is literally insane to me.
If people want to see a wholesome story without any psychological aspects they should read something else- I just hate how people are justifying the ML’s actions because he is obsessed with her. Although you can dislike the MC, blaming her is crazy to me. Like I agree she is a fucked up person but she was trying to go past that to actually be healthy for him by truly loving him and not using him as a tool anymore but he fucked it all up.
I do hope that the child isn’t abused according to spoilers and it’s a fake leak or something…
...according to the spoilers, I think that is what she did ...
I hope so.
I still wish for a happy ending for the mc. But at this.point, the king and the crown prince.would have to die and she become the mother Regent to the.only heir left.to the throne and rule the empire so good, that she'll be remembered forever. And the child to get the temperament and character.of the MC father... :/
I do not believe in "happy endings"... I am fine with any type of ending as long as it makes sense...
To be clear, it's an explicit rape fantasy plot with the ML (?) being sexually dominated explicitly against his will for at least a year already so far. He was an enemy general that lost the war and was gifted to the FL, who seems to be devoid of emotion with a habit of cruelly harming and dominating those around her. The story seems to try to play both sides, giving her a sob story background and trying to occasionally make him look kinda smug back when he wasn't a sex slave. He's a virgin, so of course that's an intentional fetish play here. Him discovering sex through his imprisonment and struggling with the pleasure he feels is something they emphasize. It's even starting to make him doubt himself in the recent chapters where he's wondering if maybe he was already into stuff like this since he always loses his mind to the pleasure and stops resisting/starts asking her for more
I'm wondering if anyone knows if the roles are reversed eventually or if the entire story is going to be focused on him in imprisonment? Does he get any sort of revenge or does he "fall in love" and then they get together?
Glasses confessed to him when he was a minor and he just told him to ask again when he's an adult, but in a way that didn't look like he was opposed to a relationship with him. He also says "you want me to say no? How could I? You guys weren't scared of me". So he's okay with them wanting him because they're special to him. Then when glasses is fingering him and he cums, he says "I thought it would be your first time, but I guess it's not?". So Ahjussi is gay? He does also immediately get into it and starts to suck red head's dick while he's being fucked in the ass. He's caught off guard, but not against it.
It looks like he was into them already?
So... From what I understand, Alicia thinks that there is a predetermined fate that everything was supposed to follow? But Ophelia doesn't seem to know what she's talking about? She had no idea what Alicia meant when Alicia said that Ophelia should be betrothed to Nicholas. She also had no recollection of "Ophelia's night". But she saw a future where Alicia died in a dream, two years of it. She also somehow divined Tantaros and it's location from that dream? She asked Alicia if the goddess had appeared to her too, so it's making me think that they both saw visions of that predetermined path, but differing ones since Alicia doesn't know what Ophelia's motivations or what the images she saw are and Ophelia said that Alicia isn't supposed to know that her power is keeping her alive.
It's still a mystery as to why she turned away there when Alicia's family was killed, right? Or did I miss something? I feel like I blinked and missed the whole attack part of the story. I just know Nix appeared and Ophelia wanted to help him despite Alicia's weird feeling about him, leading to the death of Alicia's family and all her hardship. I'm not sure where Nicholas gets off targeting Alicia as he has been if he understands why Ophelia is doing what she is. I guess he hates her because he loves Ophelia and she's badmouthing Ophelia? Even though she was just keeping up appearances when she put up the wanted poster/bounty and called Ophelia a whore in front of that noble lady? Does he think Ophelia has done enough to make up for what happened? I'm guessing there is some missing information we don't know yet. Right now he makes no sense. But if there is it makes me wonder why he hasn't said anything to Alicia to clear Ophelia's name instead of being passive aggressive like he has.
It's a typical regressor story where the FL didn't do well in her first life and died a terrible death because of the schemes of the antagonist, the queen. In this life she vows to get revenge on the queen and prevent the deaths of both her husband (the should-be crown prince) and her best friend.
Her husband is the heir to the throne, but his life is a living hell with the queen constantly getting in his way and abusing him at every turn. He was there for the FL at her worst time and now she wants to return the favor by helping him and making him king. The queen wants her son to be king and the current king is bedridden in a coma.
The FL's plan to get rid of Helen was honestly really badass and I like her calculative mind, it was funny/cool when she pissed off the queen on purpose as soon as she got there to get some attention off her husband and onto herself to protect him. I also liked how she handled her brother, though I hope she gets revenge on him eventually too.
The story has already made it clear that there's more to things than we are privy to at the moment. He's already said that he hated her "at first" and we saw that he was so on edge about... Something... That even while having sex he was actively watching out for threats
We also know that the saintess trapped him on earth the first time around, he mentioned that he would come to realize that only she could open dimensional portals, which to me screams that she refused to let him go home and then he got caught in the tedious societal structure he mentioned
My guess is that the “Saintess” was hanging around and stalking him.
At the end she said the video call was too fast so she didn't really hear or see anything, but she clearly heard stuff before that and asked "what are the two of you doing?" as he panicked and kept trying to get her to hang up
Was her saying that supposed to be a confirmation that she doesn't know or was it supposed to mean she's in on it and is complaining she didn't get to see because the call was too sudden? He tells her to let him sleep.
Yooooo, now you got my mind spiraling again! Because I was wondering the same thing and then read this like yeahhhh. What's up with that
I'm still on board with MC getting her revenge now that I've seen he hasn't changed like it was making it seem up till now. But I kinda just think MC is a horrible person. She's basically a serial killer villainess that regressed. It makes you think you're going to root for her at first and then you see that in reality she does anything for her goal, including killing decent people. Jeremi and Emiliana actually made me pretty upset, they were good people and Emiliana regressed to save him. I want her to get her revenge of Kleio, but I also ended up wanting some good ending for those two, even if it wasn't Jeremi becoming emperor. ╮(￣▽￣)╭
No coz emiliana was acting all high and mighty. She thought that she could change everything and was better then anyone just because she regressed. She acted all stupid and went against mc head on without an actual plan when ppl were dying left and right. I don't necessarily think they were good. They wanted to survive, like the mc. She wants to protect her family and herself. And she is doing that with any means necessary. Whereas emiliana was just talking big. I think that the whole po8nt of kleo become a cheater once king is to show that ppl do change with power. Not just him specifically. So would have emiliana and Jeremy. You think that she would have left mc alone and not tried to kill her to get rid of potential danger if she were to become queen? Either she would have been smart and killed her or stupid and let her live to die herself later on. That is the nature of this imperial palace. Surviving
Emiliana was acting like she just regressed after having died to the MC and knowing in hindsight that that's what happened. She would've killed the MC afterwards, probably, but only because she had already been killed by her and had a whole turnaround and tried to be smart to get what she wants before being outsmarted by MC
I never saw her act better than everyone, it was just standard "pure woman hardened by death by betrayal wants to save the one she loves in this life", she was basically a typical regressor. MC was overexposed doing all sorts of messed up shit and now she doesn't feel like someone I can really root for. Emiliana just wanted to save Jeremy