So everyone knows, there are a few other little shorts on the authors Twitter. There is one that goes with the end comic of them in the afterlife where basically Sada asks Mamiya if he saw his letter. He left mamiya a letter but mamiya didn’t see it and is asking what’s in it and Sada won’t tell him, I believe out of embarrassment. It’s been a while.
whats there twitter account? :0
This was an absolutely unbearable read lmao. Definitely my least favorite from the author. What a headache…so much drama hahaha
Yall really can’t handle complex female characters. I love Asagiri. You fake ass feminists. She has found her strength and power through this job and on this island. That certainly wasn’t the case at first but for once she feels like she now holds power. Why would she want to give that up? Women at that time had no power. Especially women like her. Especially in Japan. And now she’s ordering them to have sex which is another mind game. THATS INTERESTING WHY ARE YALL HATERS. Sex was her path. She is basically saying live a little, get rid of this goody two shoe patriarchy honor your father bs and live for you. If she wants to have sex with the guy she likes she should. If she wants to kiss him, she should! Asagiri is trying to get her to understand her world. She’s a strong willed woman and that’s HOT. Yall are why we can’t have morally dubious and evil women. Smdh
She wants to make Satako get a taste of her view of the world. Wants her to see things through her perspective and see if it changes anything. It’s interestinggggg
When i read it i completely thought of something different tho- my first thought was “Oh god she might know some deep secret about Shinpei(‘s sex life) and its gonna hurt to watch” well i hope im wrong… i mean yea it would be understandable if he had problems even on a sexual level too but dayumn
RIGHTTTT omgg i love how clear u explained it
I’m losing my mind over how good this is…I LOVE that for once the character isn’t treated like they’re broken for liking their life that may seem small to others and that he isn’t asked to compromise. They don’t need to travel together for his work and that’s not realistic anyway. They both get to live their lives individually and together and that’s beautiful. I like how they understood each others values and respected them rather than acting like either of them wasn’t good enough/needed to change and instead just thought about what they could do together and how to blend their lives.
I wish I could learn more about the plagiarism scandal because honestly a few heavily references panels is not enough to be plagiarism. Artists use references (pics they don’t own copyright to, other peoples work, their own images, etc) all the time. It’s normal as long as the final work is different enough and in the context of this being a whole different manga with different art style and different story, I’d say it’s easily transformative enough. Especially when being a mangaka is so demanding and with such a huge time crunch. Actually there are entire books of references from all different angles of different people in different poses made FOR manga artists with full scenes or props. I haven’t seen a side by side comparison but tbh it’s different enough just from looking at the art styles and the body of work that this shouldn’t be an issue. It’s even normal for artists to copy both down and animated scenes from other anime and you can find compilations of studios literally copying other studios it’s just considered an homage. Like look at the chainsaw man op, is it plagiarizing all the movies it took from for the op? I bet those animators even drew over the scenes from the movie bc that’s a normal practice. I have to know if it’s a legal issue or a social media cancelation thing bc the truth non artists don’t get is there is a lot of stealing in the art world, the best teachers teach you how to steal and there’s even quotes about it. It’s very common practice
have you looked at the side by side comparison? what's your take now?
chainsaw man op was considered fine because it's just an op, not part of the main story and most importantly EVERYONE KNOWS its a reference. this and that are a different case.
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i know referencing others is normal, its totally fine!! but what's not fine is HEAVILY REFERENCING other's work panels to panels and commercialising it. you comparing this issue to those pose reference books is a different matters altogether. go look at the side by side comparison, shinonome literally copied from the panels structure to the composition.
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"It’s normal as long as the final work is different enough" its not normal if what was copied is a whole panel(s). look at the burger, even the cheese melt is the same. should've stayed quiet if you haven't even see the comparison.
"hey i bought this comic recently and i recognized they copied a whole page from yours, but it's fine because the final work and art style are different, right?" try saying this to your artist friend who makes and sells comics
I’m speaking as somebody who does just that. They’re telling two completely different stories and about food fetishes. It’s REALLY not that deep.
Cheese melt it’s a BURGER in a comic about getting your dick hard watching people eat. It’s so genuinely not that deep. Maybe instead we should complain about all the garbage smut and poor plot lines being monetized. If I found out my friend was jerking it to me in the bathroom while I was sitting in the living room eating idc if I was into them before I’m not now because that’s sooo rude and borderline sexual assault. Masturbating around people without their consent is gross and traumatizing. Maybe we should complain about all the normalized rape in comics instead of copied burger drawings. That’s honestly the least of the problems in an industry and country where child abuse material is still legal and thriving under publication lol
HAHAHAHA I JUST LOOKED UP THE IMAGES. That’s not plagiarism. The page layouts are different, there’s definitely similarity and I’d believe it’s been referenced if the artist admitted it but it’s transformative enough that it’s not plagiarism. You can’t trademark a dude holding a burger. They aren’t even posed the same, one dude uses both hands and has a different expression. You can’t own the right to a person biting into a cheeseburger and the cheese being stringy or the side view of a cutlet. Overall, there are enough differences that there’s nothing legally going to happen to the artist. Saying all of this, AS an artist who has worked in galleries and studios where the artists I worked for traced images from books or their own pictures. Ultimately the final pieces were different and transformative enough. If you trace 3 chickens from pictures you don’t own, change up the style, give them your own background, you’re fine. It’s all these young digital artists that have no clue how actual fine artists have been operating for centuries. Wait until you hear most big artists don’t even draw their own stuff or make their own pieces, their studio assistants do. Go watch a documentary and work in the industry. Hell, an artist I worked for only did the painting, I drew everything for him digitally and then we had a machine draw it on the paper and canvas.
That’s it’s not plagiarism. You can’t trade mark a man holding or biting into a burger. They change of the backgrounds, have different panel layout, with some being very similar but the overall page different in composition, they’re posed different just from similar angles. One dude holds the burger with two hands and a demure expression and the other has a wide open mouth and holds it one handed. You can’t own an angle or the side view of a cutlet. It’s poor taste to not change some things up a little more or put them in a different order, but ultimately this has to be a case of public opinion because they’re not gonna win a legal case. I worked in the art industry in different roles, including studio assistant. Most famous artists don’t even make their own work. They all have different work flows but tracing from images is very common and having your studio assistants actually draw, sculpt, paint, or assemble the piece is a common and widespread practice. I drew for my boss and had to trace whatever images he brought, many were his own and some were from different publications. As long as it’s arguably transformative enough, nobody can do anything about it. This is one of those cases. Different character, different panels, different stories, different poses from the same angles, different expressions, different faces, different art styles, different page layouts. YES they are very similar in some panels and do look heavily referenced. Poor taste? Certainly. But nothing is gonna happen to the artist legally. The publication just dropped them because it’s bad optics and they can’t trust that the artist wouldn’t break copyright law in the future since they just showed how bad they are at it. I’d drop them too
Chainsaw man op is commercialized. It’s a published work. But like I said it’s ultimately transformative enough because they didn’t copy the story and it’s just short clips. Same can be said for a manga with pages with a few very similar panels. The whole pages aren’t copied, just some panels clearly very heavily referenced. If the overall page has a different composition, which they do, it will be fine (but tacky). You cant trademark a man holding or biting a burger from a certain angle. In one referenced panel they are both dudes, different style, upward angle, holding a burger. But they have different poses (one hand vs 2), different backgrounds, and different expressions. You can’t legally say it’s copied even if they look really similar because it would not be hard for it to be a coincidence because there’s only so many ways and angles to draw a man eating a burger or even just a burger for that matter. (That’s a common argument for these things).
I looked up the images, they’re different enough. Go look at my other replies if you want, I’m too lazy to explain it all again. I’m speaking as somebody who has worked in the art industry and knows what goes on in studios. Lot of referencing and even tracing. The final work just has to be different enough. At the end of the day, time is money and artists get paid very little in illustration for very time consuming work. People always want more and newer work to look at for seconds vs the hours it takes to make. Many of the most successful artists know how to make the most in the shortest amount of time. Or they remake the same works over and over again with slight changes. The artists that try to maintain 100% “originality” are lying to you (also very common practice) or burn out or are not as successful monetarily. OR, most commonly, not caught. Art is still under capitalism and used to be all patronage. I do agree this artist did a poor job of transforming the work enough for it to not be noticeable but there’s a difference between public opinion/bad optics and copyright laws.
The mangaka literally admitted fault and their publishing company recognized it as such. Meshinuma is also not the only series they “took reference” from though it is the most “referenced”
Not to mention…it’s not transformative lmao? Just drawing it in their own style doesn’t negate the fact that they copied almost verbatim the panel composition and contents. Sure you can’t copyright a burger scene but maybe consider that for some fucking reason the burger makeup is the same? Why does it have the same type of layer makeup. Why is the cheese in the same fucking place. And the page after that. Why are things proceeding in the literal same panel order. In another scene that referenced a different manga the black haired character has his hand under the food and then wipes his chin IN THE EXACT SAME MANNER as a page from a different manga.
“As long as it’s transformative enough” isn’t applicable in this situation where it’s clear that for whatever reason the mangaka couldn’t think of their own scenes
https://x.com/d9yyg0vgr226224/status/1725311697324474853?s=61 has a more succinct side-by-side with some other scenes that were clearly lifted from either Meshinuma or Okada-kun no Danran Gohan
1. Kind of sad the ending part debunked my theory a bit that he was so sure the kid wasn’t his bc he didn’t really have sex with ririko bc he liked the other guy bc it seems like he hasn’t thought of him like that…but I still think he didn’t sleep with her and is confident the kid isn’t his bc of that. I definitely want to see more of the past interactions though. Maybe he just wasn’t aware of how he felt about him.
2. He totally found the drugs in his pocket…
Ahhh this manga is so fun to read, I’m happy for an update but wish I could read the whole thing
These authors brains are truly rotted…that was so jarring and out of place. Ever since I read about authors including this stuff as FAN SERVICE these random sexual assaults have started to make sense as to why they’re included when they add seemingly no value. I think people outside of Japan don’t know that the SA included in bl is there as fanservice. Even when it seems really dark, if they show it, it’s for fan service. If it’s implied, it’s not. You can read translations of authors afterwords where they say how “cute” or “sexy” drawing their characters getting assaulted was… you can also find that a lot of them make…illegal (obviously not in Japan) content too. Obviously not all, but it’s shockingly common
Wtf is wrong with this author honestly… All their works are unreadable. It’s just brutality without anything redeeming, what’s the point? It has to just be their kink. There’s gotta be a line to smut/porn where we accept it’s not healthy. This is just actual torture. The sad truth is a lot of these authors do enjoy brutal rape porn. This author and the author of sadistic beauty (especially the side story between the two guys) must be bffs.
Don't read it then
Istg
Are you perhaps illiterate, they said it was unreadable. Clearly implying theyre not reading it. This whole "dont like dont read" shit is so stupid they can still share their opinion. Hell if they read this whole thing just to criticise it theat would still be a valid reason. Istg this is so immensely nonsensical to me.
Well if they didn't actually read it how do they get an opinion?
Are u stupid?
I'm a fan of this author and srsly can't tolerate ppl shit talking them.
An opinion is only respected if it's not insulting the other party in the first place
Otherwise it's just annoying
I come here to read comments abt the story when I see some dumbass commenting "it's unreadable and the author unfortunately likes rape yada yada"
I get annoyed
Shove you f*cking "opinions" up ur fata** ㅗ
You cant comprehensively read, i said they werent READING it, present tense. Obviously they would have had to read it to form an opinion. You've stated your bias, as you said youre sensitive and cant tolerate ANY form of criticism of this author because your their undying fan. Nobody says you have to respect an opinion of course, unless you agree with it you wont have any respect. But you cant dictate freedom of speech, by all means comment, ill point out your hypocrisy since your irritation is rooted in bias and objective thinking.
i wont be replying anymore, waste of my time trying to speak logic to you.
Sure don't
I would've totally moved along if the comment was a simple "I don't like it cuz it's full of rape, not my style I don't like this author"
But this one took a personal jab at the author
And was like unfortunately a lot of authors do this
Which does question the freedom of speech
Cuz why would something be " unfortunate" simply cuz u don't like it?
I don't like harem books but I don't think it's unfortunate that it's written :/
Yeah i think its the author kink and let be honest most toxic story is more popular and have good demand that means they have a good market for this kind of story. ( Sorry my English )
I actually think "Eunsuk & jung-gu" is a pretty solid story, haven't read "down and dirty" so idk abt that one, but yh, this one is just rape kink,like the plot hasn't really advanced that much and i feel like the rape here is way more detailed and goes on for longer than it should. and it really surprises me cuz they actually had tact when dealing with those sorts of themes
Frrrr
This person pretending to be a hardcore fan while illegally reading and stealing money from their beloved author lmfao. They blocked me so I couldn’t reply but you did a great job of it. The don’t like don’t read is the worst and most useless response to criticism. All works are subject to criticism and opinion and as you said I’ve read enough to decide I’m not reading any more and to criticize the work. From their nonsense responses they’re most likely a child which is really unfortunate because this kind of content literally damages kids brains and can really mess you up.
I want to add, that if you read the original text, at the end Mamiya uses suki, daisuki, and then aishiteru to say he loves Sada. To me that’s such an important detail. Suki is often used between lovers or crushes and daisuki is the more common word for partners to use or family members. Aishiteru is not commonly used between lovers or family members in japan because they feel it is so intense and embarrassing and take the word seriously. Of course, this depends on the people. But that’s the general sentiment. There’s an interview where old couples are asked and they haven’t said it in the decades they’ve been together. Mamiya escalating to get his feelings across and because he’s feeling so deeply for Sada makes it even more devastating. He really loved him with his whole heart. Our pitiful precious Mamiya deserved the best the world had to offer but was constantly hurt. I’m glad he got to feel this once in his life even if it undid him.