Taurine's Topics (51)

yep and let's also thank Min for spilling the tea and bringing SH and NK back together even though Min is the one who suggested to kill NK in the first place.

After reading this comment section I always start asking myself if people actually read the story or they only watch drawings and sex scenes.

Most BL readers share one brain cell. This is what reading the comment sections on this website has taught me.

Lots and lots of ppl feel the “I can’t confess to my bf” “straight guy turning gay” “childhood friends turned fluffy love ending” that far outweigh the toxic stories - are super boring, too. So this is the story for readers like me and others. This is the ship we want. Idk how you can still be reading this, this far in, if you are so against the direction, like, do you love hating it so much that it gets you going every ch ?

And did I say you can't like them or something like that? No
I like to finish stories which I've started. And I'm a little bit curious about how it will end? And I'm interested in other characters and threads? But the plotline is going a little south (imo) unfortunately.

And at first I hoped it will stay dark? I thought: finally a really dark story without "from rape to love" trope.

Respect your opinion and i agree with you too. Can’t deny that i felt kinda disappointed that the conveniences happened in few chapters like min just pops up out of no where at the right time. But i like this trope tbh haha it’s my kink but in real life i don’t consider this type of story to be normal by modern standards. But it’s ok not to simp for it. Obviously any story isn’t for everyone

Not everyone has taste and enjoys this masterpiece, just don’t read it

ahaha a masterpiece. I can agree everyone has their taste, but this is a mediocre work, enjoying this doesn't mean you have taste, actually your bar is very low if you think this is a masterpiece lmao

I agree so hard! If the story was meant as a tragedy of unrequited love, it would have been still unoriginal (there are so many works with nobles falling for lowborn people) but ok. The main problem with that it's that is going towards the same old BL cliché of love through rape with them ending up together and happy.

I don't feel that deeply, it's just my reflection about the story?

In several parts, some characters state that Seungho's life style is a bit too much. He's more violent than the normal (and violence was normal) and he likes sex with men, but obv beside some rumors, nobody does anything, exactly because at that time, if you were a noble you could potentially do anything. Law existed, but 1) it was different from ours 2) noblemen could easily escape it (especially if the crime was aimed at a lowborn).
Social class is also very important: many of the things he did (violence etc.) probably wouldn't have happened if NK were a noble like Jihwa. In a world like that and with man like Seungho, it's pointless to talk about morality or about him showing a bit of empathy: he grew up as a nobleman (and this alone could be enough), he is also pretty f*cked up.
This is to say that the social context is important. I "accept" more Seungho's character, than many others who live in our time and world and who are as bad as him.
And if I remember correctly, it's not that Jihwa didn't want to kill him, he (smartly) realised that leaving him alive and letting Seungho believe he escaped was a better and safer plan.
Anyway, I just don't get people who romanticize Seungho, he's like this and it would be hard as hell to change him.
About his "love story", well, it wouldn't be the first bl where abusive guy is loved back. I don't know how it will end and honestly I don't really care at this point.

She didn’t say she didn’t like it. Only pointing out facts, analyzing and critiquing some aspects. Why so rude?

No? Jihwa felt guilty about the whole action long time before NN presented NK to him. He had nightmares and but his fingers to blood. He was drinking constantly too.
And he couldn't go with it. Because he is much more innocent than SH plus he understood SH won't return his feelings in the end. He just said NN has to return it.

Idk maybe Korea's history is much different but even in my country or other European countries noble men didn't escape with anything so easily? Especially wrongdoings towards other nobles. And aren't we talking about Neo-confucianism times when homosexualism was treated as really disturbing, deviant, immoral etc.

"In several parts, some characters state that Seungho's life style is a bit too much. He's more violent than the normal (and violence was normal) and he likes sex with men, but obv beside some rumors, nobody does anything, exactly because at that time, if you were a noble you could potentially do anything. Law existed, but 1) it was different from ours 2) noblemen could easily escape it (especially if the crime was aimed at a lowborn).
Social class is also very important: many of the things he did (violence etc.) probably wouldn't have happened if NK were a noble like Jihwa. In a world like that and with man like Seungho, it's pointless to talk about morality or about him showing a bit of empathy: he grew up as a nobleman (and this alone could be enough), he is also pretty f*cked up."
Tbh I've never said otherwise?

And SH cut off Jihwa's top knot, hurt his servant and stepped on Jihwa in public... Hit Min to bloody pulp. He just has a special place in heart for people who don't go along with his wishes I guess.

All I've meant was the point that in many places this story is not so historically accurate and most people don't care about it... They just care about the part which normalizez SH's abuse towards Nakyum.

Yeah sorry, I read again those chapters, I thought all that plot was a bit more complex than Jiwha not being able to kill.
Anyway, I'm European too and noblemen doing whatever they wanted was pretty much normal here too (otherwise why the need for the french revolution and many other events?), so I'm not really surprised by Seungho's behaviour. Also he is a more powerful noble and this is why he sleeps with many other noblemen (who are less powerful than him). The problems would rise if these noblemen were to rebel against him or report him (but again, I can see this kind of thing happening only if other powerful people get interested in getting Seungho's property and power).
Jiwha allows him to treat him like that, but if he decided to take revenge and find the right ally then that would be the only case where I can see Seungho getting punished.
Yeah, homosexuality was a sin but again he's a noble, he can do what he wants (unless other nobles as powerful as him say otherwise).
The laws where made by the aristocracy, so of course they could bend it and use it in whatever way they liked.

But I wasn't talking about noble's actions against not noble people... I don't know if I worded it badly...

"The problems would rise if these noblemen were to rebel against him or report him (but again, I can see this kind of thing happening only if other powerful people get interested in getting Seungho's property and power). "
Tbh I was talking about this part? And imo it's all to convenient and rather unbelievable no one rebeled or did anything against SH. Seeing like his family is loosing some of the influence after some of them were killed.
He is also an outcast. With cut topknot off.

Also even noble homosexual men during the time still married and spawned children...which ones again isn't the case in our story. Which is rather questionable. It's not just SH. Looks like Jihww also doesn't have one...

Yeah I agree they all should have wives even if we never see them in the story (cause they would be irrelevant). In those days gay people, especially if they were nobles, at least got married even though sometimes they didn't have kids (very rare though, they at least tried usually). I could maybe understand how SH doesn't have a wife since he's one of the main character but it's laughable that his entire harem is single. That would never happen. Also the author herself said that her story isn't meant to be historically accurate and I don't blame her for that but then the rape apologists shouldn't use the tired "we can't judge them as we would nowadays" because the story isn't accurate therefore we're free to criticize them using our present days moral.

Yes and in fact I agree that he could be punished if the other nobles rebelled against him. But they didn't, probably because it's more profitable for them to be next to him. About the wives, I think it depends. It's possible they have them but we don't see them (what would be the point of seeing them anyway?), or they don't have wives yet (we don't know their precise age, but I suppose they're in their early 20, it's not so strange for men that age to be unmarried... Only women had to be fast and marry asap). I wouldn't take Jihwa as an example since he loves SH and I think he would refuse marriage proposals.
I'm sure the author isn't perfect in her depiction of history's details, but I don't think a story like this would be so impossible. They're young nobles, so being unmarried and committing crimes is not so weird.
Also consider that unlike Europe or western world in general, a power like Church (with all its set of moral rules) didn't exist so I think "crimes" like homosexuality were easier to "commit".
The only weird thing I see, is the fact that his family allows him to behave like that and shame them. Maybe in reality, he would be forced to have a more normal life or he would be "eliminated" from the important roles in the family.

They are mostly about 25 years old or more if I'm not mistaken (alth author has never precised?). Even for man at the time it was rather "advantage" age in marriage matters.

Yes but Jihwa's family wouldn't care much about his feelings for SH, would they?

Like imo most of this things look too convenient, scratched and at times just unbelievable. Even NK's haircut is just not accurate.

There wasn't a church but still there was Confucianism and especially in Joseon era (our characters are living in) homosexualism was looked down on. And it's just look questionable when you see how many of SH's fellow noble peers take part in such acts so freely. Yes they are nobles but still. Also so many of them showing homosexual "tendencies"? Statistically rather unlikely.

Maybe I'm too persnickety but I still think the story isn't so historically accurate, someone few months ago with much bigger knowledge about Korean history pointed out things which doesn't make sense in some comment even.

My whole point of my OP was about that most people don't care about historical accurance, they only care when it gives a "free pass" to Seungho's and Nakyum's power imbalance.
Although the truth is as I said at the beggining even for a noble his actions are quite extreme.

We don't know how old they are, we can only make some assumption and it seems they are rather young. At 25 people would get married, but I don't think it was a scandal if someone got married later. Moreover, marriage obligations were heavier if you were the first son... For as much as we know these dudes could be cadet sons or smt like that.
About homosexuality... you talk as if those dudes were gay and are having sex with him because they love him or something. They're basically like prostitutes, having sex with him probably gives them some advantage, or they hope they will get it. Jihwa is the only one who actually cares abou SH, the others navigate around him just because he's the lord.
Yes, confucianism existed, but did it have the same powers the Church had? The Church had a huge political power, it had tribunals, laws etc. It was not just a religion or a set of ideas.
As I said above, the only huge and strange thing is the lack of the family influence, unless they are the ones who want these young men to get closer to the Lord.
No one says that SH's actions are not extreme, they are and they say this in the story too but (and I am repetitive I know) I don't think it's totally impossible for a person like him to exist.
The historical setting doesn't give a free pass to SH's behaviour, but we shouldn't apply our morality and sense of justice to a story set in the past.

And by strict law nobles at the time couldn't just do as they please. Of course it's a different topic if the rules were or weren't enforced. But by law it was not legal to hurt other citizens and subjects of the monarchy they belonged to if they hadn't have lawful reason to do so. Of course once again it's a different matter if noble get free pass even of they broke a law...which is rather obvious they did.
But killing people out of whim in public wasn't imo rather everyday occurance even if you were from elite, a noble.
But once again I was thinking more about Seungho's actions towards other nobles.

But don't you see most of the points are exceptions. It's weird but theoretically, maybe it would be possible if.....etc. Everything looks rather scratched.

Lmfao I've never even implied that they love him or called them gay even. But ok. And you are talking as if they weren't nobles themselves. Yes they can be lower in the hierarchy but yikes. And the problem is it's not developed in the slightest. We don't see getting anything out of it, any advantages. We just see sex which imo is another let down.

No one says that SH's actions are not extreme? I don't agree. Many people in this particular comment section play the card: ah he is a noble, his actions are understandable and pretty normal in those times.
And I didn't apply our morality and sense of justice.

Also the main point of many revelations which were also very problematic in themselves, the bloodthirst, slaughtering ex rulers and their children etc.... Was very often actually financial crises. Of course there were many other important factors and causes and every revolution was a little different.

But he IS an exception. It is said several times in the story. SH is known for his cruelty, he is known for his sexual drive, his behaviour is considered excessive by everyone. I never wanted to say that people like SH are normal, just that, because of his privilege, people like him could live however they wanted. He is particularly shameless and violent, true, but it doesn't change the fact that he can do that exactly because he's a noble. I don't know what is so surprising about this when nobles did whatever they wanted all through history. And yes, revolutions (as any other political event) happens because of money, people get poorer but rich people always live in the same way, people gets angry and jealous of them and here comes the revolution.
Now, SH probably doesn't affect people's lives that much, it's not like anyone gets poorer if he f*cks a man or kills a random person. The only danger for him, come from other noblemen, who may have interest in his wealth and title.
When the time will come (because I think it will come) and someone will try to accuse him, surely the fact that he is violent and homosexual will have a huge impact, but not yet, not if someone doesn't have other kind of interests first.
I repeated many times they were nobles, but not every noble is equal. There is a hierarchy and Seungho is definitely more powerful than them (otherwise they wouldn't sleep with him). It's true we haven't seen yet what advantages they get from being with him, but it can be anything. Just think about the Master who got that job at the governement also thanks to his help. Master himself was a noble, but from the low nobility and he couldn't get where he is if he didn't get the support of a "stronger" noble. Probably the other guys are from the low nobility too, or not as powerful as him, so if they are next to him is because they expect something (being it a job in a higher positition, being it money, lands, or simply protection).
I agree on the fact that we didn't see any of it, but it doesn't mean we won't see it (and I hope we will). I agree on the fact that seeing only sex is getting frustrating, exactly because there could be so much more to see.

Sigh. Let's stop this discussion at this point because it's pointless.
Really you don't have to explain to me the basic historical knowledge, I've never denied that nobles, royals were privileged or that there was hierarchy among them. It's elementary historical knowledge everyone probably had in their historical classes and I feel we are evading ourselves in our arguments and point.

I will repeat to me some parts are just too convenient, too scratched, barely possible at times and makes in my pov the story rather unbelievable.
My main point is that once again people are not so worried about historical details, they are only interested about history when it's explaining power imbalance dynamics between NK and Seungho.
And my abother point is PEOPLE IN COMMENTS try to portray SH's actions as normal and understandable because it happened in different era but even by back standards his actions were rather extreme.

I was trying to explain why SH isn't so out of reality as you claim he is, but ok, whatever.
No one came here to learn korean history, so of course they care about it only when it comes to the relationship between the characters.
Fictional stories are always too convinient, too scratched, barely possible, unbelievable. Otherwise we would just read about real life.
The only criticism I have toward this story is that SH's actions are repetitive and almost boring by now, as for the rest to each their own.

Like you didn't understand me, maybe I've worded it badly. I never said it's not possible for someone like SH to exist. Under specific circumstances speaking completely theoretically someone similar to him could even live nowadays. I've never tried to imply its not possible.
I was taking more about other circumstances surrounding his person and other aspects in the story which look rather scratched and unrealistic at times.
And the other point was about some readers claiming in comments that SH's behaviour is rather typical and understandable for your average noble which is just not true. When even is story it's as you noticed emphasized... That it's really not.
That's why I also pointed that noble privilege only plays in SH's favour, people aren't as understanding towards Jihwa.
"Fictional stories are always too convinient, too scratched, barely possible, unbelievable"
I can't quite agree. There are many movies, books which are very mundane and realistic.

And what's more someone made a very good point to me about that.
People judged Inhun harshly because (among others) his homophobic behaviour... Which back in a day was a standard view.

Historical circumstances are needed the most when they are in favour of Seungho's and Nakyum's relationship and its dynamic. In other cases Jihwa, Inhun didn't get the same privilege of historical aspects.

Even tho I know she has been introduced because she is gonna reveal the predictable plot point n° 272939449 aka Nakyum is actually a noble, I just realised the only part the Noona had in all of this was to lead Seungho to tie NK up.

No one has ever justified Seungho's actions

No one. Please.

"Doing his job" hahahahahahahHahHaHAHAHA

Like he is assassin ;") so theoretically it's his occupation.

For fuck's sake they are blaming Jihwa but it's not him that raped Nakyum for two chapters in a row. Seungho had many chances to listen from Nakyum, and even that useless mr Kim tried to convince him Nk didn't run away. Seungho needed the most untrustworthy person to tell him directly in order to understand.

Double standard towards characters is a norm in BL world unfortunately. Beside killing and causing some drastic health problem, ML can do literally anything. SH could rape NK for next 100 chapters but in 209 author would reveal his sad backstory and he would hug NK... And everyone would praise how he has changed and what a great story.
The bar is not even low. There is literally no bar anymore.

no one is hating on the assassin though

I've definitely seen few comments hating on both juhwa and assassin.

the bar in this fandom is rlly low ;-; ppl rlly wath seungho to a bunch of shiz but the momment he does smt alittle bit noice everyone suddenly like wow character development finally watch he fonna do smt again then ppl gonna get mad then switch real quick once he "makes up" for it

For real?! I really saw someone go like "omg Seungho raised Nakyum's hand to his forehead here comes the character development" kinda wanted to strangle them

i mean,,,, where's the lie tho ??

Bruh for real, It's "oh nooo, so anyways" scenario all over again. I absolutely despise Seungho but I'm trying to consider his past and the era they're in. I empathize on that but more than anything, I hate him. I just continue to read this for Nakyum, hoping everything will get better for him because he deserves all the good things in life. (´･･`)

Also don't you hate how convenient all of this is?
PTSD striking at the right moment
Min arriving at the right moment and casually snitchin Jihwa
Seungho noticing only now NK had bruises (but he tied him too and he had a broken wrist!) and conveniently feeling regret
Next chapter of the main story i feel it will be Seungho letting him go with the noona, with a magic redemption he doesn't deserve. And of course he would seek revenge on Jihwa as if he is not the cause of all that trauma
Also Nameless as a character doesn't make sense at all. He didn't disfigure Nk because he pitied him for putting up with nobles, and yet he left him to a worse fate. If he disfigured him at least they could believe him ^^''
But everyone is acting dumb just for this stupid plot go on.

I just hope author makes Nakyum not forgive Seungho. Make him suffer. Although I doubt even that would make me like his character. He has just done so much bad that giving him a redeeming arc just feels like eating vomit and that is also too convenient. Hopefully it doesn't fall into another category of victim falling in love with their abuser trope. It really had so much potential.

This is clearly going towards the victim falling for his rapist since chapter 1

Yea, sadly.

Oh of course I also see how predictable and blocky the plotline has became. Like everything is so convenient all of sudden. NK didn't have much trauma after SH's actions, now he got one after abduction, he couldn't say anything so we got rape scene extra and SH just had to tied him in the same way as assassin did, then Noona just had to overhear and came for a rescue, Min also magically appeared in all of that... And SH noticing bruises magically just now.

Yes I'm nearly sure the story is going to go down the path: SH letting NK go with his Noona... Yay redemption arc + author revealing brutal and tragic SH's past to make reader's sympathetic so they won't think for even a second if they should forgive him.

Although I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't even let NK go.
So his redeemtion more or less would look like: throwing NK some scraps of affection and acting nicely as long as NK will follow his will.
But it's either it or SH mercifully letting NK go FOR SOME TIME ofc. Because I hope no one has delusions they won't be reunited together sooner than later.

You'd be surprised. A lot of people who suffer from mental health conditions to his level are surprisingly strong and well to do in terms of physique. It's something to do with the metabolism more than physical exercise, which, let's face it, is more often than not running away from protectors and caretakers.

Like fast metabolism don't make your muscle grow? People with fast metabolism are slim and their muscles aren't so well defined.
And they are strong because of high levels of adrenaline.

seungho literally dont do shit besides smoke and have sex yet he's built like michaelangelo's david lmfao

You're right. Fast metabolism keeps you slim. But don't forget the earlier chapters: Seongho is a trained man of nobility, including martial arts and horsemanship. It might not be shown throughout but let's assume the man is vain enough to know what happens when you live a life of smoking, sake (I think), and only sex. Let's assume. Lord knows all our hopes are going down the mental drain.
P.s: Honestly, I'm also doubting the man knows anything but abusing Nakyum.

THIS. I'm so annoyed to see people comment shit like "ughh oh noo if only Nakyum was telling the truth" like ugh??? Seungho is literally raping, abusing and causing him the biggest trauma of his life and all y'all mfs are worried about is miscommunication? I'm so done with them

they'll somehow victim blame nakyum lol, 'nakyum shouldve dodged the knife then he wouldnt have gotten stabbed by seungho :/'

Literally? I get so uncomfortable whenever people start hyping SH up just because omg look he let NK sleep with a pillow- it's like they're looking for the littlest thing that could provide SH some kind of redemption