LinaLauLiu's Topics (41)

Well said

you yawhi fans r so toxic istg

i hope the author gets "tortured" with more requests and makes a Cain extra where he gets with someone who deserves and not a looser like Jooin

won’t happen but hey you can always make a fanfic

im pretty sure the author said they already wrote the plot by the time this came back from hiatus lol. this isnt the author amd artist quickly trying to make a cain ep, tbis is all they had in store for the readers from tbe get go lol.

Lol, I stan NO ONE.
Who would stan any character in this story?
I better things to do rather than "stanning" fictional character ╮(￣▽￣)╭

Gosh, these fans are wild.
If this kind of story triggered you so much, you're not ready for yaoi, classic ones, the "fun" ones.
I suggest avoid any "drama", "triangle love" tags and just read stories with "lovey dovey" tag.
You'll always get a happy ending with little to no toxicity

Well, whatever plot she had, she def put Cain's happy ending last min/as addition.
This is the only chapter that she put little to no effort in drawing and writing.
If she did this before, or often did it, then we can say it's her artistic (lol) choice.
But she didn't.
It shows how little she care about this chapter.

I myself is an author (amateur one, lol).
No author wants to put out story (or drawing in this case) that aren't in good.
Her overall plot in this manga is arguably bad, sure.
But you can tell she try her best on drawing and writing the convo.
But this chapter, nope, she didn't even try. (￣∇￣")

Hii ! What do u mean with "extra stories" ? Where can i read the extra ? I can't find it here.. tia

Someone removed/ deleted them :(

I SAID THE SAME THING BRU

Reunion stories always make me wonder if one of the characters has a bad memory, face blindness, or amnesia whenever the love interests reunite for the first time in years. I'm like "dude, it's been 10 years and you're telling me he was your best friend, but you never knew his name or remembered his face???"

Stuff like that always made me giggle, but at least Korean authors make it more reasonable than the Japanese authors. That is some full blown trauma-free forgetfulness right there. Three years could have passed and the MC remembers zilch!

I am sorry but jooin deserves some of the bashing rn. we can all see that he's not completely over yahwi and he still has the audacity to give Cain hopes when clearly anything yahwi does bothers him. moreover, he's screaming at Cain cuz of what happened with yahwi and not because cain hadn't told him anything. Cain is chill man he's done nothing wrong. he just wanted to protect jooin in the beginning but caught feelings and that's it.

I'm sorry, did I miss the part where Jooin gave Cain hope and Cain not knowing Jooin has not over him?
He was not completely over Yawhi since the beginning. Jooin made it clear from the first time when Cain keep pressuring him about his feeling.
That's why he refused.
Yet Cain said he is willing to wait, and while in doing so, he makes sure Jooin didn't get in contact with Yawhi.
Knowing FULLY well, that Jooin was not over him.

He's screaming at Cain because he realized him and Cain situation is basically the same as him and Yahwi's situation.
He made a connection. It triggers him, sure, but Jooin's lashing out is totally UNDERSTANDABLE.

Here, I'll give you a step by step as to how people's mind work.
Jooin, for a long time, was confused as to why Yahwi did what he did to Jooin.
In the end, Jooin decided to just leave him and just think of him as a jerk.
Then, Yahwi confess as to why he did those things to Jooin.

Jooin, hearing all those things, start to realize that the reason behind everything start to makes sense. He's trying to connect things and to make a judgement whether Yawhi's confession can be accepted by him.

The, Cain called.
Remember this. Cain called, while Jooin was in the middle of realization, that the things happened in his life (with Yahwi) wasn't just simply him being a jerk. There's a reason behind his actions.

Noted that it says "International Call", and Cain explain "I lost my phone".
It wasn't in the panel when Jooin called Cain, but in the dialogue, Jooin said,
"why it's hard to get in touch with you".
It's pretty clear that after leaving, Jooin can't call Cain and it takes a long time for Cain to call him.
Jooin asked a BASIC and REASONABLE questions,
"Why did you had to go home, that you got so busy, I can't reach out to you"

What Jooin said after that literally explain why Jooin questioned him.
He made promised to Jooin, he asked Jooin to wait, which Jooin gave to him.
All Jooin wants is explanation. A reason why the things happened as it is.
Cain just said, "I just leave you temporarily, I have something to take care of"
Really?
You said you love me, care for me, but you can't even trust me with your personal life?

Jooin and Yahwi conversation TRIGGERS Jooin to be more critical, which is VERY NEEDED.

===============================
"Cain is chill man he's done nothing wrong"

No, hun. He came without explanation, leaving without explanation, meddling a stranger's life, demand to know everything yet didn't want to do the same to the so called "love of my life".

He's sweet, that's why people look over all the red flags that was shown from him.
In real life, people like this got away easily when they have issues, lol.

i love you for this T-T cain is just the same as yahwi is just slay sis T-T

i meant btw your point of view is the same as mine ╮(￣▽￣)╭ i just dont get why people lash out on jooin for asking; i mean he deserves to know at least ┗( T﹏T )┛

I agree with the jooin statement but saying cain is the same as yahwi is crazy cain indeed have redflags BUT he's far from yahwi

Picture this, You have someone that you have a crush on. But you can't tell them because they are in a relationship. But in the relationship they are in, they are being abused; mentally, physically, emotionally, sexually, etc.

Every day they come back from work or university, they are drained, sad and you know the reason behind it. Still, every day, you choose to console them as a friend even though you hope they'll be happy with or without you.

Words they start saying about themselves diminishes who they are as an individual because their partner does that to them. Still, all you can do is be a consoler. And slowly through you, they start gaining courage. They laugh more, they act dorky and do things they've never done before with their partner. So through you, they start learning how to exist; how to live.

But still, since their partner is their first love, they are still drowned to them not out of love anymore or anything but mostly out of validation of their existence.

Still, no reaction from their partner. Then they decide to end it all because they can't take the abuse anymore. And the second their partner sees that it all breaks loose. They finally realized that they'd changed and explained to them why they'd been abusing them. So basically pull everything out of the sleeves so as not to lose their toy.

In the meantime, you are just a bystander. All you can do, even though you want to protect your crush, is to support them.

So you decide to just be there for them and make them laugh. Slowly, they start having a crush on you as well but not to the extent of love. But still, through you, they are learning a lot about themselves. You see that and you are happy.

When you ask them out, they tell you to give them a chance, to close the previous chapter. And the day they go close that chapter, they come back to you all beat up. You have never laid your hand on them but the person who was supposed to be their boyfriend did.

The whole day and night they keep on crying. Then one day, to console each other, you do the deed. Of course, none of you wished for it to happen that way but it did and none of you have regret about it.

You ask them out, they tell you I'll need more time to get to know you. Now on your side, every time you want to tell this person you have a crush on your secret, something comes up. Either you are interrupted or it is not a good time.

Not wanting to lose them, you keep on pushing back to tell them what has been going on. It's difficult to let people in your secret when they haven't yet been exposed because you might be afraid of scaring them away. And losing everything in the process. Even if you do not admit it, what you want to hear from them (your crush) is that they also care about you. It might slightly open your secret door to them or it might not.

Some people need time especially if they find their own story heavy or a burden to scare someone away.

--------------------------------------------------------
Now apply all that to this actual fiction.
Of course, you have the right to feel the way you do about Cain because we never got the chance to know him. The author had the power to make the mark on how to turn the story. So basically we are the passengers and he is the driver.

We might not like how is driving the car but at the end of the day, we are still in the car with him.

Yes, they did not expect the story to have such a reaction from the readers. So it kind of makes sense for them to be confused as well on how to lead the story. They might have gone with Yahwi and Jooin together but maybe they are rethinking the story and have them stay single.

That being said, Cain can be so many things you want him to be but one thing I did not yet read about him is that he is not a rapist, a psychological/mental/emotional/physical abuser. That's why he can't be like Yahwi. Of course, one thing that makes them similar is that they are two human beings who are in love with another human being. At least in the non-supernatural world.

this makes sense. I hope everyone ends up single atp

I think you replied to the wrong one lmfao or no(?)

Lemme clarify one thing first, since you seem to assume that I think Cain=Yahwi.
I'll copy paste my comment to highlight the sentences.
I didn't edit my original comment, so you can double check.
"Cain is basically Yahwi, but the "sweet" one.
Full of mysteries, "manipulate" Jooin to let him into Jooin's life."
Read the second part.
That's the context as to why I said Cain is like Yawhi, but the sweet version.
So, no.
I wasn't and am not calling Cain a rapist or abuser.
He's manipulative and full of mysteries.
=========
Now,
Since we're going to use the "proper" relationship ways. I'll also write my argument based on the "proper" way people are in relationship (or trying" to be in one).

Let me point out flaws of your argument:
1. They're not friends, colleague, coworker, or in any way close prior to Cain suddenly appear and say "I'm looking for you. I'm here for you".
He's a complete stranger to Jooin.
He then basically lie to Jooin, saying he has nowhere to live, in order for Jooin to let him live in his house. That's a manipulation. You get your way through lie, persuade someone, to get what you want.
On top of that, he is not telling Jooin anything about his background, why he's there.
Cain knew very well that Jooin was being manipulated by Yahwi, yet he's doing the same thing. He's nice, sure. But people can manipulate others in so many "nice" ways.

2. Jooin didn't have any other option but to go to Cain, since he lives with him and "taking care" of him. Jooin practically doesn't have any close friends. In situation like this, they WILL likely "likes" you and depend on you. So normal people, in "proper" way, should know that there's a higher chance that you'll be the rebound. That your crush will still have feelings for their ex. Pressing about how you "love" him when your crush is still can't figure out his feeling will only confuse them.
Cain didn't give Jooin space to actually think about his own feeling and jumping straight away to confess your love and having one night stand.
You can protect your crush from being abused by their ex without jumping straight into confessing/sex and then asking to be in relationship.

2. "Not wanting to lose them, you keep on pushing back to tell them what has been going on. It's difficult to let people in your secret when they haven't yet been exposed because you might be afraid of scaring them away. And losing everything in the process."
-> You can be that way to your friends and colleagues, but NOT your lover or potential lover.
If you know your secret will affect your relationship/you think it'll affect your relationship, you know damn well the relationship is doomed.
If we apply this to real life, then you shouldn't even start a relationship when you still have a big secret like that.

3. You ignore Jooin's feeling, situation, and environment in your argument. Which is the POV of my comment.
======

I don't have any opinion about the ending or how the author gonna write the plot moving forward.
I love tragic or twisted ending, lol, but it doesn't matter to me whether the author is sticking with his/her original pair or change it.

What I have an issue with is how people are so harsh on Jooin and completely skip some "red flags" that Cain have.
Ofc there'll be a reveal later about his background. But as of now, Cain is also manipulating Jooin.
And how, it is absolutely understandable, that Jooin did what he did.
Saying he didn't trust Cain, questioned their relationship, and he demands to know everything.
Jooin is the only victim in this "love triangle".

As to Cain's character. I see him as a nice and sweet guy who's being manipulative to a confuse and lonely "important person in his live".
I don't have any of the character.
It's a character, after all.

I think you misunderstood my last comment.
I wrote:
Cain is basically Yahwi, but the "sweet" one.
Full of mysteries, "manipulate" Jooin to let him into Jooin's life.

The context as to why I said Cain is basicallt Yawhi but sweet one is on the second sentence. That he's full of mysteries and being manipulative.
Not the behaviour or other things that Yawhi did.

Okay, i get your point. I guess i misunderstood. Thanks for clarifying

Ok, I get where you are going with your thoughts.

I personally don't mind that Jooin is annoyed by everything and taking it out on Cain. It makes sense because he is at a crossroads and needs reassurance. So I guess that he is hoping Cain will give him that.

I really can't dislike Cain even with the flows you just pointed out. The story, after 82 chapters has been around Yahwi the most. So it makes sense that we still have no clue who is really Cain. Anything mysterious is exciting to me so I'm here for the juice.

Sorry for adding another comment.

I just wanted to add that though Jooin has the right to lash out at Cain, he should still chill out because the world does not evolve around him. Other people have problems too. If he can't pick that up, he is not meant to be in a relationship with anybody.

I get that he is angry and confused but that reaction won't get him anywhere. He should give Cain time to tell him what has been happening to him at his own pace.

Jooin made Cain wait which he has been waiting. So, if he can't handle waiting for him in return, Yahwi is always an option for him. At least then he'll let a deserving person love Cain truly.

"I just wanted to add that though Jooin has the right to lash out at Cain, he should still chill out because the world does not evolve around him. Other people have problems too. If he can't pick that up, he is not meant to be in a relationship with anybody.
--> He's NOT. He made it CLEAR he didn't want to be in relationship. He REFUSED Cain. Not just once, couple of times. We just through this, hun, how can you already forget about it? Cain was the one who keep confessing to him, asking him to be in a relationship, pressuring him into give him a chance.
You're taking a chance on "unstable, confused" person, you'll get the "unstable, confused" reactions/side effects.
=====
"He should give Cain time to tell him what has been happening to him at his own pace."
-->How long does Jooin has to give Cain time? It's been MONTHS. And there's NOT a single panel, prior to the lash out, where Jooin ever pressure Cain to talk about his background.
======
"Jooin made Cain wait which he has been waiting. So, if he can't handle waiting for him in return, Yahwi is always an option for him."
--> NO. Cain MADE Jooin promised him to give him a chance. Cain MADE HIMSELF wait for the unstable, confused Jooin. He didn't even give Jooin a time to process his own feeling after they have sex. Which, as I said in my previous comment, clearly a rebound.
=====
"At least then he'll let a deserving person love Cain truly. "
--> I'd be more than happy for Cain to be with someone else.
However, Cain HIMSELF put him in a position where he meddling with someone else's love path. Cain HIMSELF put him in a position where he wants to be with the "undeserved love" Jooin.


I'd repeat this, again.
Cain was the one who came to Jooin, out of nowhere.
Cain was the one who fell in love with Jooin.
Cain was the one who lie to Jooin about his situatoon, in order to live with the him.

Jooin is the ONLY victim in this love triangle.

You should take time, either to re-read the manga or re-read my comment.
Because it's clear to me you still don't get time order right and you don't understand the dynamic of their relationship.

holy crap finally someone that understands. Cain is so damn mysterious, and he’s the same red flag as yahwi. no point blaming jooin when he has a reason to act this way.

nope, he is definitely near yahwi. they’ve done different actions, but cain’s one is worse since jooin pitied cain’s “situation”, therefore he let cain stay with him. cain is also quite draggy with the story, he keeps pushing jooin to love him instead of yahwi and portrays yahwi as the bad guy when he’s equally bad

He's a red flag but no where near yahwi lmfao literally tell me a time where he threw hands on jooin like yahwi did?? Being abusive and having anger issues literally makes yahwi way worser than him, how do u guys even compare cains doings to yahwi when its so clear that yahwi is way worser when in terms of treating jooin. Although cain has redflags, but Cain was never equally as bad as yahwi

We might have been reading different ways this story.

No, Jooin never refused Cain. Yes, Cain did confess his love for him but Jooin never told him "No" or "I'll never date you". Instead, he said: "Give me time. I need to sort out a couple of things. My answers are all positive".

I do agree that Jooin is confused and does not know what to do. He has the right to get made. But lushing out does not help the situation.

Because Jooin said he needed to sort out things. Cain respected that wish. Yes, Yahwi's talk made him more confused than he was before but at the end of the day, he needs to make a decision.

This is not about not getting the manga but it is about how the reader chooses to look at the story.

No Jooin is not the victim of the love triangle, he is the victim of all the abuse he received from Yahwi (rape, psychological/emotional/ etc). Sure now what confuses him is what is the right decision to make.

You have your right to stand where you stand in your view just as I do. And sharing discussion helps see how each reader view the story.

I can't even count the number of times Yahwi abused Jooin. Jooin's confusion started with questioning if Yahwi truly liked him.

Sure Cain has his weird side as well. But I don't recall reading in the story where Cain: raped, used, emotionally abused, treated like a toy, psychologically drained, etc Jooin in the story.

Cain allowed Jooin to be human and to experience what having fun means (smiling, being dorky, etc.).

Cain is not perfect just like all of them in the story but he is not an abuser.

He is a victim of some sort? Well we'll find out in the next chapters.

I thought to bring facts to refute the statement where you said: "He made it CLEAR he didn't want to be in relationship. He REFUSED Cain. Not just once, couple of times"

"I don't know what made me cry. No, I wanted to pretend I didn't know what that was. I thought I could make it work. So, all, along, I pretended that I wasn't hurt. But, you always know better than I do. When I thought that I'd reached a dead end, the one who came to find me was none other than you. Calm and serene like spring rain" _____ Jooin narrates to himself.

Later when Cain said: "Jooin I like you", Jooin narrates: "Cain, I can feel his voice and hands trembling. What did I do to deserve such unwavering sincerity?"
Jooin is not saying: "Tf dude, didn't tell you no I didn't want?" but instead, he is shocked because he feels like he does not deserve Cain's love.

Of course, Cain responded with: "I hope you feel the same way" and he continued with: "Pressuring you won't help."That startled Jooin and he reassured him that he did not feel pressured by him at all.

Of course, Cain is surprised because he did not expect that response from Jooin. So he asked: "Does that mean Jooin likes me back?" He is not pressuring but instead, he is making sure he is not misunderstanding what Jooin is trying to say.

Jooin replied: "Yes I do".

To reassure Cain, he continues with: "The thing is I can't give you an answer yet. I need to get some things sorted first. But I know how you feel about me and I'm giving it serious thought. AND MY THOUGHTS ARE ALL POSITIVE"

I do not read Jooin saying NO I'm refusing your proposal.

At the Han River, when Cain saw Jooin's wrist, Jooin tried to explain but Cain cut him off and reassured him by saying: "It's none of my business". Even though you could see the pain in his eyes, I did not read Cain saying: "Why the tf are you with that guy, You should be with me because I'm better." But no, he did not say that.

The first time Cain noticed Yahwi and Jooin arguing/fighting in the parking lot, Cain of course came to Jooin's rescue then in the apartment, he witnessed Jooin crying because deep inside Jooin already knew that Yahwi did not love him but he was in denial. In a conversation he had with Jooin, Jooin asked Cain: "If someone keeps breaking your heart what would you do?" Cain replied: "The more you like them, the harder it is but you too like each other, you should not hurt each other". Jooin told him that, he was not sure the feeling goes both ways". He meant he was not sure Yahwi liked him back.

Yes, it is true that Cain always tried to act like he was really close to Jooin in from of Yahwi while they were not. I can't blame him for that because Yahwi always acted like an ass toward Jooin in any situation.

They once had a drink together in their apartment where Jooin asked Cain if he liked him.
Then Jooin told him how handsome he was and not once did I read, Cain using that event to take advantage of Jooin. He held himself back. He stayed at Jooin's apartment because Jooin needed him. All he wanted to be, at first was Jooin's friend (referring to the night Jooin, felt comfortable asking him questions related to his love life drama).


Of course, later in the story, Cain witnesses another fight/argument between Jooin and Yahwi, this time he does not interfere but waits from afar. So that was the first time he showed his feelings to Jooin in a hurtful way. He did not yell or argue with Jooin. All he asked was: "Will Cain never be someone important to Jooin?". This conversation comes way before the conversation they had at Jooin's birthday celebration where he asked him to give him more time while he sort of somethings.

I'll agree with you that Cain has a lot of red flags. That's because we don't even know who he is. But at least, one thing I'm sure about is that he is not a rapist and psychological and physical abuser like Yahwi is.

here http://m.kuman56.com/22446/

Thank you (=・ω・=)

I don't think a different perspective equates to being stupid. So I think you should refrain from such language.

Let's break down this chapter shall we? Jooin has told Yahwi multiple times that he never listens to what he had to say. What Jooin's wishes or opinions never mattered. Even in the scene before Yahwi left, Jooin said "You won't listen to what I have to say anyway" and what does Yahwi do? He does something else without Jooin's consent.

And we have the next scene of him thinking of his trauma, instead of reflecting on what the root cause of the problem is. His trauma, like you mentioned, is not to be taken lightly, I agree. But I am a strong believer that your past experiences are not excuses for the actions you commit. It gives insight into why someone is a horrible person, but that doesn't change the fact that they are a horrible person.

So it is appropriate for me to say that he is selfish. Immediately after Jooin tells him explicitly that he knows Yahwi doesn't care about what Jooin had to say, he goes off to think about his trauma. He barely acknowledges the truth that he undermines Jooin's wishes, and insteads goes off (mentally) that he liked Jooin much more than Jooin believed, which was not the point. He feels like he is wronged when he isnt. The truth is that he was horrible to Jooin

Also, about his trauma: His childhood caused him to have trust issues. I would understand if that meant that he wouldn't trust that Jooin likes him, or that he is paranoid that Jooin is cheating behind his back. But it doesnt explain why he doesn't take account what Jooin has to say, or why he believes that his own thoughts and wishes should be prioritised over his own.

If he was brainwashed to believe that he shouldnt trust anyone, and that somehow has turned him into believing he is an unfeeling person, there was no need to hurt Jooin more. But he did. Jooin has finally started to move on, but Yahwi still thought about himself, and said Jooin isnt allowed to. Idk how to phrase it but linking his trauma to his selfishness is a bit of a stretch to me.

These are fictional characters, so I can say all of this. If they are real people, I would hope Yahwi and Jooin never end up together. Many of us just believe that the author could have planned this better. Maybe made Yahwi's character less polarising. That's all :)

i wish i could like this reply yeez say it louder for the people in the back

You're talking from NORMAL way of thinking prespective.
From a third party prespective, which if yours.
You don't even explain it from Yahwi prespective, which is not related to this discussion because my comment specifically talking about Yahwi situation.

First, Yahwi won't listen.
Isn't that obvious? Why would he listen to others when he doesn't even trust them?
Ofc Yahwi will just brush it off.
Imagine someone that you don't trust in your life/have betrayed you before, telling you to listen to him/her, would you listen?
In Yahwi's mind, Jooin not telling him about Cain is a betrayal. Plus, Yahwi seeing Jooin's lips clearly from kissing but Jooin denied to have done it. Again, he has a HUGE trust issue. And I'm talking FROM YAHWI PRESPECTIVE.

And if you say "So why would Yahwi even go chasing Jooin?"
(1) Because he wants to know what's Jooin's intention. Why would Jooin insist on getting close to him but then suddenly just avoid him?
(2) Because he's doubting himself, can he really trust Jooin?

Again, part of Yahwi force himself and hurt Jooin is wrong. And I DO NOT support that. But that could be the way of him to cope with things. YES, WRONG. But people expressed themselves differently. Unfortunartely some people do it using violence.
=====================================================

"But I am a strong believer that your past experiences are not excuses for the actions you commit."
=> Partially corrent, partially wrong.

There's a reason why people who are mentally unstable/disturbed can get a light sentence for their crime. Some even sent straight to rehabilitation for their mental health.
Because if their brain can't comprehend, they can't think straight.
You can't reasoned with them, they're unable to connect the dots.
So it depends on how deeply the past experience affecting someone.
====================================================

"Immediately after Jooin tells him explicitly that he knows Yahwi doesn't care about what Jooin had to say, he goes off to think about his trauma. He barely acknowledges the truth that he undermines Jooin's wishes, and insteads goes off (mentally) that he liked Jooin much more than Jooin believed, which was not the point. He feels like he is wronged when he isnt. The truth is that he was horrible to Jooin"
==>
(1) He thought about his trauma because it triggers him to think. He was regretting why he can't just say that he love Jooin, then he REMEMBERS the past and how his granddad tell him to "THINK BEFORE YOU ACT" (referance: chap 60, page 42). And that's exactly what he did. He think again and again, can he trust Jooin? Do I really love him?
(2) He barely acknowledge he won't listen. That's a progress, because in the past he doesn't even care and completely brush off what Jooin said.
(3) "he liked Jooin much more than Jooin believed". Umm, no? Which page says he liked Jooin more than Jooin believed?
After that page 42, the grandfather told him to think before he act and not trusting others.
Yahwi proceeds to say/think, corelating with the fact that he thinks he love Jooin, Yahwi said "Who is he to say that there's nothing between them" refer to what Cain said before. Yahwi had a history with Jooin way before, and then now. He proceeds to think, was it Jooin that liked him first or Yahwi was actually the one that liked him first? Then he FINALLY acknowledge that HE actually the ones that liked Jooin first, since they were still kids.

Please read the chapter carefully. You clearly skip some parts that caused you to misinterpreted what actually happened
=====================================================

"Also, about his trauma: His childhood caused him to have trust issues. I would understand if that meant that he wouldn't trust that Jooin likes him, or that he is paranoid that Jooin is cheating behind his back. But it doesnt explain why he doesn't take account what Jooin has to say, or why he believes that his own thoughts and wishes should be prioritised over his own."
==>
I explained this in my first paragraph. Also, refer to what his grandad said, chap 60 page 42.
=====================================================
"If he was brainwashed to believe that he shouldnt trust anyone, and that somehow has turned him into believing he is an unfeeling person, there was no need to hurt Jooin more. But he did. Jooin has finally started to move on, but Yahwi still thought about himself, and said Jooin isnt allowed to. Idk how to phrase it but linking his trauma to his selfishness is a bit of a stretch to me."
==>
Do I have to remind you that Jooin was the one who chased Yahwi? Have you forget that? Have you forget that Jooin was the one who said he won't let his feeling catch up
and interfere their "sex friends" relationship?
And then when Jooin started to feel it's too much since he actually love Yahwi, Jooin avoid Yahwi.
That's the trigger of Yahwi's feeling, and that makes him uncertain. Why did he feel something lost when Jooin gone?

"Idk how to phrase it but linking his trauma to his selfishness is a bit of a stretch to me."

It's you who are unable to connect the dots.
The author try to give you snippets of why Yahwi can't just admit he likes Jooin.
Why Yahwi feeling uncertain about his own feeling.
====================================================

When people already disliked a character, they tend to not care about that character.
They can't think from their prespective.
Which clearly is the case for Yahwi character here.

The author did a good job to give a snippet of his past.
Ofc the author can dig more into it, I personally would love to see that.

Not all stories are fluffy. Not all characters are kind characters.
That's something that you should keep in mind whenever you read stories.

Not all characters are fluffy, not all characters are kind. So we agree that Yahwi is not fluffy. Yahwi isnt kind. That is my point.

I don't like the trope of he's bad but that's okay because he had trauma. No, it is only okay if he WORKS ON IT. If he IMPROVES ON HIMSELF.

Your example for people who are mentally unstable committing crimes, they are still punished for it. Sure, they have weaker sentences, but they are still punished for them because it isnt an excuse, it was a REASON, and so the state is giving them an opportunity to get better. If what you said is correct, they would be released, no repercussions.

If you look at the comments here, a lot of people agree with the way I perceived the chapter so it isn't my fault for seeing things the way I do. The way the artist and writer portrayed the story isn't the best because many people are still not convinced that Yahwi will be redeemed.

The part of your comment talking abt why yahwi is thinking of his trauma, I understood that. I didn't miss any part nor misunderstand. I am just pointingnout how at this point, not ONCE has Yahwi placed himself in Jooin's shoes. And Jooin has done so multiple times.

I don't think I was clear in my opinions. I am not saying Yahwi should die or like go to prison. What I am saying is that he needs to work on himself before he deserves to be in a relationship. That is the healthy thing to do. At this point, all he is thinking about is himself, which is good for HIM cos he has serious issues, but not good for Jooin. Just because he is broken, it doesn't mean hurting Jooin is okay. Jooin deserves better than that, and I hope you at least agree with that.

Just know, this is a fictional character. If I had a friend like Jooin, I'd be making sure Yahwi stays away from him.

Jooin had no fault in the trauma that Yahwi experiences, so why is Yahwi punishing him for it? That's how I see it:)

"So we agree that Yahwi is not fluffy. Yahwi isnt kind."
==> Not really. Hi behavior isn't good at the moment but he has a big potential to be good. I always try to see people's positive points and believe they can always improved. So I won't say he isn't kind. His behavior, emphasis in behavior, isn't good but deep down I believe he's kind since he IS TRYING to change.
======================================================

"he WORKS ON IT. If he IMPROVES ON HIMSELF."
==> Again, you're missing HUGE parts of the story. HE IS TRYING, but he still doesn't know the right way. He has no one to tell him how to do it. Jooin tried to tell him how to, but Yahwi still trying to process things. The fact that he left in chapter 60 shows that he is trying to change. In the past, he'll just forcefully drag Jooin to his house.
======================================================

"Your example for people who are mentally unstable committing crimes..."
==> Jooin PUNISHED Yahwi by avoiding him. So he IS getting punished.
======================================================

If you look at the comments here, a lot of people agree with the way I perceived the chapter so it isn't my fault for seeing things the way I do. The way the artist and writer portrayed the story isn't the best because many people are still not convinced that Yahwi will be redeemed.
==> Yes, because most of the readers here are teenagers. Their brain isn't fully developed. I'll copy paste the explanation. You can look it up, they all said the same thing:

One of the biggest differences researchers have found between adults and adolescents is the pre-frontal cortex. This part of the brain is still developing in teens and doesn’t complete its growth until approximately early to mid 20’s. The prefrontal cortex performs reasoning, planning, judgment, and impulse control, necessities for being an adult. Without the fully development prefrontal cortex, a teen might make poor decisions and lack the inability to discern whether a situation is safe. Teens tend to experiment with risky behavior and don’t fully recognize the consequences of their choices.

On the other hand, in adults, the frontal cortex is completely developed. They are able to process and organize information. Adults, who are emotionally and psychologically healthy, are able to judge risky behavior and factor into decision-making the consequences of their choices. Teens might rely more on their amygdala, the part of the brain dealing with emotions, whereas adults rely more on their frontal cortex, leading to balanced thinking and behavior. In fact, another part of the brain that is still developing are certain neural networks of brain cells that link the prefrontal cortex to regions of the brain that are less about reasoning and thinking and more about emotion.

That's why they immediately:
"Oh, he's doing something bad. What a horrible person!"
If adults, healthy brain normal adults, see someone doing something bad, they'll think what drives them to do something bad? Is there anything that triggers them to do it? Let's hear from his side and we'll judge later.
=====================================================

"The part of your comment talking abt why yahwi is thinking of his trauma, I understood that. I didn't miss any part nor misunderstand. I am just pointingnout how at this point, not ONCE has Yahwi placed himself in Jooin's shoes. And Jooin has done so multiple times."
==> Ofc he hasn't. He didn't trust others. He basically has no empathy towards others. At the beginning part, he clearly says he's putting an act. If you ever learn psychology, or have someone who has trust issue, they'll react in two ways (well, a lot of ways but the obvious ones are two):
(1) They'll be scared and paranoid when people trying to get close to them.
(2) They will act normal but deep down they won't care or have empathy towards others.
Yahwi is the latter category
=====================================================

"What I am saying is that he needs to work on himself before he deserves to be in a relationship. That is the healthy thing to do."
==> That won't apply to everyone. Some people who have issues, will get better when they have someone very close to him whom he can talk to. That and therapy with psychologist will definitely make them better. There's a manga called "The Beast Must Die". That's a great example of how someone can help his partner to get better.
=====================================================

" Jooin deserves better than that, and I hope you at least agree with that."
==> All of them: Jooin, Cain, Yahwi, deserves a good life.

Jooin still didn't know what makes Yahwi act like that. Once he knows, he can decided whatever he wants to do, whether to stay with Yahwi or stay away from him.
=====================================================

" If I had a friend like Jooin, I'd be making sure Yahwi stays away from him."
==> If Jooin is my friend, I'll told him to have a real talk with Yahwi. Jooin still going with Yahwi when Yahwi asked him, didn't fully said he doesn't like him, and from his actions clearly still care about Yahwi.
All Jooin said was "You don't listen what I said. Do you really don't know your mistake?" and then run away.
That's not gonna solve anything. Talk, have a discussion. If you still care, you can always start the discussion, not just waiting for the other person to start it because "they're in the wrong".
Unless, ofc they don't care anymore. Then just run from that person and don't interact with with him anymore.
Which clearly ISN'T the case for Jooin.
=====================================================

"Jooin had no fault in the trauma that Yahwi experiences, so why is Yahwi punishing him for it? That's how I see it:) "
==> Except that Yahwi didn't see that as punishment. He's doing what he do to other people. He's doing what he BELIEVES as something that he has to do. Clearly that's not how he's supposed to do, but he doesn't realize that.

Again, you see this from normal prespective.
You will reach the same conclusion if you think from that prespective.
=====================================================

Seems like psychology based story isn't for you (and many others here), sweetheart :)

.......you are getting strangely defensive over fictional charaters sweetheart. You telling me I am seeing this from a normal perspectiove means that you aren't seeing it normally..

Your talk about research around the brain is something I know a lot about, being a med student and all. And it seems like you believe that Yahwi is not wrong becaude he is mentally ill. When he is wrong, because he is mentally ill.

You need to know that no other person is in charge of other people's mebtal health issues and so you saying that it should be Jooin making allowances for Yahwi because he is the healthier one is completely biased.

Like you said, I view this as a 3rd party, which means that I am viewing this completelt objectively. You are viewing this only from Yahwi's side.

I agree that communication is key, that both sides suck at it, but you saying that Jooin has more wrong is not it. Yahwi is starting to evolve, he is starting to see his mistakes, and here you sre saying he hadn't made a mistake. The reason why you think so is because he is trying to change???

Since you like addressing points by points, although this is going to be a pain to do on mobile, I'll do this once.

≈=========================================
"The fact that he left in chapter 60 shows that he is trying to change. In the past, he'll just forcefully drag Jooin to his house."

This argument sounds a lot like "he only attempted murder, at least he didn't actually kill him".
Comparing what happened to the possibility of what worse could happen isn't a viable argument to elevate a bad action. Would you console your friend who got raped by saying "at least he didnt kill you?" Prob not. Would you console your friend who got forcefully kissed by their ex with "at least he didn't force you do do worse"? I sure hope not

===============================

"Jooin PUNISHED Yahwi by avoiding him. So he IS getting punished."

Here is the thing. Yahwi publicly denounced any relationship with Jooin. Jooin took the flack for ir, being bullied for being gay, harassing Yahwi etc. So, with this rejection, he decides to move on. And you call this punishing Yahwi? Because he ignored Yahwi? Something that Yahwi had been doing from day one? Because he is mentally ill, that's ok?

Dear, I am seriously worried about you. I hope that in the future, when you stary dating, you will be able to see manipulative behaviour and avoid that. If you truly thibk that Yahwi is the one being punished instead of Jooin, I really hope nobody takes advantage of your psyche. Really. I am seriously worried.

==========================

"If adults, healthy brain normal adults, see someone doing something bad, they'll think what drives them to do something bad? Is there anything that triggers them to do it? Let's hear from his side and we'll judge later."

I am not a teenager. I am 24. And all this talk about brain development, yes I am aware. I have just graduated med sch after all. But here is the thing:
As adults, we are also aware that we are not responsible for other people's triggers and traumas. We should be able to identify toxic behaviour and leave situations when we need to.

Yahwi hurts Jooin. Jooin hurts Yahwi because he triggers his trauma. Hence why I said the best situation for them, since they are already broken up, is to stay apart, Yahwi work on his trauma and trust issues while Jooin recovers from the new trauma Yahwi brought him.


"That's a great example of how someone can help his partner to get better"

But you need to know that the partner is not responsible for doing that. From this point, Jooin hasn't explored Yahwi's trauma becaus he has no idea and that isn't WRONG. He is allowed to be oblivious. He is allowed to not care about it now. He is allowed to not want to deal with it in the future. Thay will not make him a bad person because he never signed up for this.

Yahwi, on the other hand...it is true that the opposite matters, that he has no responsibility to care what Jooin is feeling, but he was the one responsible for causing the hurt and the bullying. And Jooin never expected Yahwi to apologise to him, nor help him deal with this trauma. Like you said, he chased Yahwi first, and he understands that these are his consequences. So he is dealing with them privately, needing some space to heal himself but Yahwi is refusing to give him space, resorting to guilt tripping him into thinking that Jooin is avoiding him to punish him.

==========

I'm tired of typing on my phone. So I will address the last point

"Seems like psychology based story isn't for you (and many others here), sweetheart :) "

I think that you are more unsuitable for psych stories since you are glamorising it. Good psych stories never paint the bad guy as a good guy. Good psych stories are self aware. They don't make excuses for the bad actions of characters, instead they include backstories that make you sympathise and remind the readers thatit doesn't change the fact that they have hurt other people. They allow the characters to change and evolve, TAKE ACCOUNTABILITY. They also showcase the dangers of toxic relationships, and how easy it is to sympathise with the bad boy because he has a traumatic past.

Maybe you haven't read many good psych stories, maybe you are still young. But I sincerely hope that you are able to identify all that I have shared with you dear. Yahwi is just a fictional character, thank god. But if you meet one irl, know that it isn't a movie or a manhwa where it becomes your job to unravel one's trauma and fix him. I've seen it first hand. Unless you are a licensed psychiatrist/psychologist, you wont be able to fix him.

The criticisms for this story is very valid. How the reader feels about Yahwi will affect how rewarding his redemption arc will be. At the moment, if he is redeemed in the next few chapters, it will not be higly accepted. That is what these comments are saying. No need to start calling people stupid just because they refuse stand on the side of the abusive character with a traumatic past.

I suggest you read my comments again and again because you miss some points and misinterpret things again. I'd love to have discussion, but if you're just gonna skip here and there, misinterpret things that (sorry to say this) is so simple and direct, I will probably stop replying.
Anyway, here's the reply.

===============================================


"means that you aren't seeing it normally"
==>I didn't. I told you from the beginning, I'm talking from Yahwi's prespective. Because people keep seeing this either from Jooin POV or normal POV of how things are. They don't want to try see it from Yahwi's prespective, which should explain everything of why he act certain way.
You didn't read all again, you miss important things again. I literally said this in the beginning, and you're asking now?
===============================================

"you believe that Yahwi is not wrong becaude he is mentally ill"
==> NO. Are you really reading my reply? You ask if I agree Yahwi isn't kind. I told you no, I believe deep down Yahwi is kind. But his behavior at the moment is wrong. READ AGAIN, I said this : His behavior, emphasis in behavior, isn't good but deep down I believe he's kind since he IS TRYING to change.
==============================================

"This argument sounds a lot like "he only attempted murder, at least he didn't actually kill him"."
==> I was giving you example of how Yahwi is trying to change. In chapter 60, he left Jooin after he was being told. In the past, he won't leave him alone even if Jooin said so.
You're bad at making comparison.
==============================================

"And you call this punishing Yahwi? Because he ignored Yahwi? Something that Yahwi had been doing from day one? Because he is mentally ill, that's ok?"
==> It is, from Yahwi's prespective, he is being punished.

You got the definition of manipulation behavior wrong.
Manipulative behavior is when someone is FULLY AWARE of what they are doing to someone and keep taking advantage of that.
Yahwi, in this case, doesn't know. In his mind, this is how he should do in order to keep a distance. He needs to be in control because he don't want to get hurt. Which, ofc is wrong and not something that people should do.

I am helping my aunt in her office as psychologist. My main job is a writer but occasionally I'm helping there since I also have a degree in Psychology. I used to work there full time.
I've seen A LOT, and I mean A LOT of people like Yahwi. Those who don't even know that what they're doing is wrong because of their upbringing. We don't automatically diagnose them when they're unaware of their own situation.
==================================================

"since they are already broken up, is to stay apart,
==> This, again, depends on the partner's decision. In this case, Jooin's decision ONCE HE KNOWS about what's going on. Once they have an honest talk and Yahwi open up.
Yes, stay apart will work. But stay together will work to.
There are many cases where the partner is willing to stay and help them get better.
Those who have trust issue need people who are close to them that they can trust.

"But you need to know that the partner is not responsible for doing that."
==> Ofc he's not responsible to stay with Yahwi.
But he CAN HELP Yahwi.
Like I said above, people who have trust issue need someone or some people close that they can trust. Slowly but surely learn how to trust others.
It's better for them to have people around. The way I see in Yahwi is that he only started to trust Jooin and not others. Well, unless we get more chapters later introducing Yahwi close friends or something. But up until now, chapter 60, Yahwi is alone.
Once Jooin knows about what's going on, then he can make a decision.
Whether to stay or stay away. He knows what he's capable of to handle. Usually, we told the partner what to expect and ask if they're ready to commit.

The easiest way for you to understand is by visiting the psychology department, talk so some psychologist there. To learn more about trust issue.
================================================

"Yahwi is refusing to give him space, resorting to guilt tripping him"
==> Because even if Jooin said he doesn't want to talk, he still at the end talk to Yahwi, agree to be pick up by Yahwi. That's not a strong rejection, resulting in Yahwi thinking it's not really a big deal. Again, I'm talking from Yahwi's POV. Not how it's supposed to be.
Even though in real life, some people just can't be firm enough to reject someone. So we have to know when to stop.
=================================================

"Instead they include backstories that make you sympathise and remind the readers thatit doesn't change the fact that they have hurt other people. They allow the characters to change and evolve, TAKE ACCOUNTABILITY."
==> This is an ongoing story. Not a complete one. If you want to critizise a story, say it once it's finished. We just got the part where Yahwi is open up (to the readers) about his trauma.

You need to know that in Korean manhwa, the story is really based on the readers respond. Once they show massive negative respond, the publisher will ask the author to finish them sooner. That's why you get some manhwa that seemed "too rush". Some of them are because the publisher asked them to finish it sooner. Not all, but some. Either because it's not that popular or they get a backlash.

So it's important as readers to wait. I get that the plot can be triggering or annoying, but critisizing the author when the problem is not even solved yet. Thank God it's just here and not in the official site.
=================================================

"I think that you are more unsuitable for psych stories since you are glamorising it. Maybe you haven't read many good psych stories, maybe you are still young."
==> Unfortunately I'm older than you.
Glamorising it, what a word! I'm telling people from the mentally ill POV, to give different insight on how their brain works. Because clearly, many people can only see black and white, even though there's a huge grey area in things that can't simply be judged as right or wrong.

Ah, I see now. You never read dark psychology theme novels, do you?
Those who won't give you only "lessons" to learn from, those who won't give you a happy ending. Those who simply tell a story of the mentally ill character, shows different prespective.
I would recommend you some but realized that you may won't be able to handle it.
So, yeah, just stick with the light theme and have a happy life (=・ω・=)
===================================================

" No need to start calling people stupid just because they refuse stand on the side of the abusive character with a traumatic past."
==> Sigh. Again, you didn't read properly, skip some of my points again. It's okay if you don't mentioned it. But if you're gonna mentioned it, at least quoted it right or don't misinterpret it.
I literally write this in my original comment
"Those who talk so lightly about Yahwi trauma and that he should move on,
FUCK YOU (︶︿︶)＝凸"

I SPECIFICALLY calling out people who talk so lightly about his condition and told him to just move on.
(Oh, and I condemn his behavior in the next paragraph just in case you missed it)
Childhood trauma isn't something that can easily "moved on".
Especially if they never visit psychologist before and didn't have support system in their adults life. Which is the case for Yahwi.
===================================================

This is a fictional character.
But his trauma is something that actually happen in real life.
And I can't stand people who simply brush off trauma and told them to move on.
I know very well that this site is full of teenagers, that's why I always made comment here and there regarding psychology part of the character.
There are people that can get better (actually the majority can) and there are people that won't ever get better.
So instead of judging them and put a "bad person" stamp, I always try to give insight to learn more about human's emotion and behavior.

THIS. Couldn't have said it any better. It's just a fucking story, get over it. If you can't handle it, then stop reading it....

It's not that we can't handle rape stuffs, we just hope to see a bit more of remorse coming from the seme. Well I dunno abt others, but that's at least what I feel.
As someone who's so into lovey dovey sweet things that it could give me rotten teeth and diabetes, I wish they would've talk about it a bit more...?
You know, like in the webtoon 'unintentional love story' & 'A painter behind the curtain'... Oh and also 'Hit on by a kinky guy'
So yep, wish this one could also be more like that too, I'm so into seme that reflects on what they've done. (▰˘◡˘▰)

Literally apologized and regretted it right after he realized what he did. There were a lot of time-skips during this manga, and they got over it already because they move-on faster, so ofc you didn't see those scenes. No need to dwell on it.

It's been so long since I've read this manga, so I re-read it again last night. And I just noticed that they've also been throwing punches whenever they fight over trivial matters even since back in highschool.
So yeah, I realized this is not the typical cliché manga that is milked untill 50+ chapters just over remorse on past mistakes, or where the uke is a weakling that would be traumatized over getting slapped or raped.
This manga is more to coming out story between the couples to their families and friends, and embracing the fact that not everyone can accept their relationship.

Sorry, I know we're talking about fiction but did you just say people are "weaklings" if they're traumatized by being raped? What the fuck, dude.

You're being sarcastic about the uke being a weakling part right? Please tell me you're being sarcastic.

Yo dude, people who get traumatised over rape or physical abuse aren’t “weaklings”, they’re human. Not sure if you meant to sound like a terrible person or misspoke, but that was a terrible take.

the hell is wrong with you?

UM- I think maybe you should apologize.

No, I'm not being sarcastic.
How should I say this... I actually meant to say that typical yaoi manga usually portrays uke as weakling. But I'm not good with words, English is not my first language.
I realize I've offended many people because of my wrong choice of words. I'm sorry (・_・||)

English is not my first language.
So I dunno what is the right word to use for it. I should've used soft hearted, maybe? Or sensitive? I dunno..
As someone who's been through physical abuse, it's not my intention to make fun of such matters. I just think that it would be nice if the seme would talk more of what he did wrong.
I'm sorry that I actually offended you, it's my bad.

My bad, wrong choice of word.
I'm sorry

it's alright bestie. English also isn't my first language.

No, don't worry about it, I didn't realize. English isn't my first language either.

ooh. my bad. i thought you were actually one of those assholes who victim blame..

100% AGREE. What are they doing complaining about it when they could have just not read it. They were warned. Besides, they didn't brush it off too. Naoto is not some pushover who would settle to someone who can't say sorry. Taichi regretted and apologized. Some even saying Nishina is way better when he literally, intentionally blackmailed Naoto. He's not any better.

All good! Some point genuinely believe that you are weak if you get abused, which is why people got mad. Have a good day :)

Yes