dulcedays's Topics (243)

ok but before we get to psychoanalyzing cheoljin do we not think the sex scenes are hot...minwoo being ALPHa when he tells cheoljin to open his mouth so he can kiss him (remember in the past cheoljin would tell minwoo to open his mouth when he was teaching him how to kiss, the REVERSAL yum)..cheoljin finally getting hot and bothered and into it and actually VOICING HIS DESIRES wowww. minwoo literally trying to carry cheoljin to have wallsex because he think of cheoljin as a delicate beautiful girl lmao

imo pretty straightforward why cheoljin is lying? minwoo is literally begging cheoljin to tell him the rumors are untrue, and cheoljin doesn't want minwoo to hate him. remember in prior chapters minwoo said that he KNEW that cheoljin was doing all kinds of things on the side but he never asked because he didn't want it to be true. from cheoljin's pov he probably thinks he needed to use his body to get something important? (he clearly didn't look like he was enjoying it lol). he views what he has with minwoo as something completely different and "pure" -- something that he compartmentalizes away from the "uglier" parts of his life.

tldr minwoo doesn't want to see the "ugly" parts of cheoljin still (still wants to live in a fantasy) -- in this way he's denying seeing cheoljin's full self. and ofc cheoljin won't reveal his full self because he thinks minwoo will hate him (+ cheoljin's philosophy of letting people see what they want to see ) like if minwoo asked - I want to understand why you did what you did - would cheoljin respond differently?

(once we get to cheoljin's pov I have a feeling that minwoo will seem very uncurious about him, like he's not interested in getting to know cheoljin more. I also have a theory that cheoljin was wrapped up in all kinds of shady things in the entertainment industry but then maybe something bad happened so that's why he quit being an idol? idk.)

minwoo = ship; cheoljin = ocean; sunbae = wind

especially when you remember how this ties back to minwoo being scared of the ocean!!)

minwoo has been put through difficult situations/been hurt because of cheoljin (basically, he's been a ship battered by the ocean). cheoljin's pov: a ship belongs on the sea, and it's expected for a ship to be damaged if it's traveling on the sea. basically, minwoo is meant to be with him, being hurt (?) in love and life is an expected part of the journey. (imo this is core to cheoljin's life philosophy: you suffer for those you care for. it's clear that he's suffered a lot for his family/those he cares about.) in fact, love is when you decide to do the difficult things for the person you care for.

sunbae's pov: yes, ships will be damaged on the ocean, but wouldn't it have been easier if the waves had been calmer? (Basically, did you have to hurt him so much? couldn't you have made the process easier?) also, if minwoo has been "damaged" and had to "heal/repair" himself, if so much of him has now been "replaced," is he still even the same person cheoljin thinks he is?

cheoljin prides himself on "knowing minwoo" and he always loved young minwoo's transparency and predictability -- it probably was so refreshing to him in his life. hence him being like clearly theseus' ship is the same ship. but you can tell sunbae's words have shaken him: what if minwoo HAS changed? what if minwoo doesn't want him anymore? and then, what if cheoljin/the sea has changed and he's become someone unloveable by minwoo?

ofc, cheoljin reacts by basically accusing the sunbae of being an interlocutor who has no business being there and is leading minwoo astray -- the "arrogant wind" (cheoljin's crazy eyes when he says this lmao) "I wonder how the ship will remember the journey" -- cheoljin is trying to claim that minwoo will ultimately remember this as all being worth it. BUT ofc he's rattled bc what if minwoo actually doesn't think cheoljin is worth it?? (somehthing so delicious about cheoljin being shaken...I am a pervert)

so excited for the next chapter. also what do we think minwoo chose? I wonder if it'll be an answer that's more in-between.

(if someone has raws pls link me.....)

cheoljin thinking that minwoo is still the same person but he's not anymore...his parts have been changed? can he accept that? can cheoljin and minwoo learn about each other anew again?
also sunbae is killing it...in the same way minwoo "knew" about cheoljin but refused to see it because he coudlnt' handle it, cheoljin "knew" minwoo was hurting but also refused to see it (maybe because he couldn't handle it either?) sooooo good I love the writing for this so much

that's why he's tried so hard to to "compartmentalize" minwoo and separate him from all of the uglier aspects of his life and tbh his personality! we know cheoljin is ruthless towards others (but also himself) -- don't know if he's prostituting himself directly but clearly he uses his body and charm for gain. (again, in the past it was him flirting with noonas to get textbooks for his siblings, now it's seems even more intense -- no doubt he's gotten into all kinds of shady environments in the entertainment industry). for cheoljin all of these steps are necessary for him to achieve some goal (financial independence? success?). that's why in his head he's like "I need to do all of this dirty stuff, minwoo just needs to wait for me and he never has to know"

cheoljin doesn't care about using others but he DOES care so much about what minwoo thinks of him! even if he started off with the intention of using minwoo, it's clear that somewhere along the way he started feeling bad and ashamed -- to the point where in order to discourage minwoo from helping him/buying him things, he won't ask minwoo for any help or tell him any of his troubles. the only time he broke was when eh was LITERALLY stabbed and had no where else to go -- and even then he kept trying to leave and smiled his way through even when he started bleeding.

I think cheoljin has a lot of disgust and shame towards himself and what he does (hence his weird relation to sex where he's often literally feeling sick about it) and he thinks minwoo won't like him if he shows him all of his ugly parts. what's interesting is minwoo admitting that he knew way more about cheoljin this whole time!! but he acted blind on purpose because he DIDN'T want to see it!! hence minwoo never asking him about what's going on directly because he actually doesn't want to know! ("how was I supposed to look at you knowing all of that?")

back to the animal motifs in this story, young minwoo only wanted to see young cheoljin as an idealized rabbit (innocent, sweet); older minwoo thinks cheoljin is a fox and refuses to hear cheoljin's side of things because now he thinks cheoljin is straight up evil. but cheoljin is somewhere in between, and minwoo learning to see cheoljin as a whole person instead of as a fantasy/the devil will be so key to them being together in the future.

(also again, the past chapter when cheoljin was at minwoo's house --- the cartoon was of a cat trying to get a mouse out of his hiding hole. minwoo = cat; cheoljin = mouse -- cheoljin probably sees himself more like a mouse -- he's actually really scared of not protecting himself!)

anyways, cheoljin is clearly manipulative but in these chapters (present time) he's definitely less manipulative and just super desperate!! (why do I feel like things are going to come to a tipping point when cheoljin cries lol)

cheoljin finally getting pleasure from bottoming is so PLOT SIGNIFICANT bc it's so tied to fear of vulnerability and his strong boundaries...the way he's not really feeling it at first but starts feeling turned on when minwoo talks about wanting to take care of him and then kissing him...for cheoljin emotionally security is sooo important for his ability to feel things sexually too!

both of them being turned on when minwoo presses down on his stomach bc of the bulge (hot) BUT also because that's where cheoljin was stabbed!!! the scar being tied to shared memories of cheoljin's vulnerability...cheoljin's vulnerability being tied to both of their arousal...(hot)

every time cheoljin is shocked by pleasure (that he isn't control of!) he tries to dominate the situation again (whether it be forcing minwoo in him, "topping" him, or later on telling minwoo "ok that's enough" -- like cheoljin would truly rather NOT feel good than give up control!!) but I LOVE that minwoo didn't stop!! hell yea!! minwoo trying to get cheoljin to say what he likes is soo good because in past flashbacks, we saw young minwoo telling cheoljin that he wanted to make him feel good too -- but cheoljin never let him! we never see past cheoljin look disheveled or turned on the way minwoo is, because cheoljin is always in control, and to let minwoo make him feel good would mean ceding control and actually saying what you want!!

(another echo of the past is how cheoljin used to teach minwoo how to kiss and would say "open your mouth" but this time around it's minwoo telling cheoljin to open his mouth...hot) it's easy to forget that cheoljin is actually younger (especially bc past cheoljin just seemed way more mature) but I feel like with their evolving dynamic you actually kind of see how minwoo is now playing a bit more of a "hyung" role

very intrigued by the ship analogy (ship of Theseus?) and what minwoo chose...bc it's true minwoo DOES know what he wants!! though minwoo saying he didn't want to hear cheoljin's side of things made me want to tear my hair out lol like PLS TALKKK!! but you can tell there's some kind of progress/change in their dynamic...

(me, #1 cheoljin gunner): you do you princess <3333

ok but in all seriousness, I think it's clear that cheoljin is genuinely hurt by minwoo's actions and took (young) minwoo's promise to live together in the future very seriously. and that's he's seriously panicked by the prospect that minwoo might have moved on (and probably genuinely barely slept last night). HE definitely has been waiting for minwoo the whole time over the years (for whatever reason something needed to happen before he could be with minwoo? idk but he definitely rushed back when he saw minwoo with Norman) cheoljin's such a hyper-controlled person but he's DEFINITELY on a tipping point (the chaotic sea being his true internal self even while he's passive aggressively smiling lolol).

sunbae is interesting bc he actually seems like he knows how to handle cheoljin!! like him asking probing questions -- :no what do YOU think" like he recognizes cheoljin is evasive and good at turning things back onto others.

at the same time cheoljin seems like he's not used to people taking a genuine interest in him? so past memories where cheoljin is like "minwoo weren't you curious about me? don't you want to know what I've been up to?" (passive aggressive) and I feel like minwoo's seeming lack of curiosity really rubbed him the wrong way (even though minwoo was like -- I can't probe, why isn't he wiling to share stuff with me, *suffers in silence*)

I'm seriously so intrigued by cheoljin's pov. there's also this weird thing where he clearly has a complex with physical intimacy and at one point was "testing" minwoo to see if that was all he wanted from him. I wonder from his pov if it seems like minwoo's signals were never as clear as minwoo thought they were!! maybe minwoo (from chealjin's pov) seems like just an emotion-driven person who does things impulsively with cheoljin because they feel good but not to commit (in the way cheoljin thinks of love)

I think cheoljin starts to make sense more when you realize he probably wants minwoo to be super assertive and tbh kind of dominating LOL like he probably really needs someone to be refuse to let him slip away/be evasive and actually be like no tell me what you want (hot, tbh) because cheoljin has such a warped relationship with expressing his own desires. meanwhile when minwoo get's out of his self-victimizing complex (which jaehyun has called him out for before) and passivity he's definitely the kind of macho/alpha/unapologetic personality that is rly compatible with cheoljin and would make cheoljin feel really secure

(cheoljin: committing crimes; minwoo: that's my beautiful toxic wife) but before that cheoljin needs to be HONEST!!! because minwoo is fine with his toxicity as long as he's honest!!! (when that happens!!! I'll levitate!!)

morally dubious mcs for the win!

yumyumyum

he had fun on the date and feels a little flustered!!! ;~; it's subtle but it's there!

sunbae is clearly very traumatized (from his experiences??) -- I get the sense he's used to not having his needs and desires heard and just being used as a vessel (like his injuries not taken seriously, etc), so he's completely numbed himself from wanting things, including meaningful relationships. he seems SO lonely and isolated too (like no family?)

sunbae is clearly self-sabotaging when he's on his worst behavior bc he's probably scared of actually really getting invested in his relationship with woojoon. at the same time, I like that woojoon is growing a bit of a backbone and we're seeing sunbae's "realer" personality as well -- their bickering is actually kind of fun? anyways I like how much of a slow burn this has been and I really think we're near a turning point - I'm rly invested!

- cheoljin flinching when he hears minwoo and his brother fighting...he does NOT like it when family fight (trauma from his own experiences?)

- cheoljin can tell minwoo's brother is judging him for coming from a "poorer" background(that slide of the brother looking at his dirty shoes) and he's still trying to make a good impression at the end ;~;

- minwoo really loves giving and spoiling the person he loves. (there's some element of financial privilege involved here too ig) I rly think it's his love language... I rly feel like this is core to (present) cheoljin now coming back to minwoo more successful and famous and determined to spoil him in return and buy him things; for him it's core to being true equals BUT tbh minwoo rly loves giving and I think cheoljin learning how to be cared for is core to future developments

- minwoo fully believes cheoljin is an angel (like a rabbit) but cheoljin probably DID approach minwoo for some ulterior motivation at first even though he now regrets it and really doesn't want to "owe" minwoo anything. so when minwoo is like MY BROTHER IS WRONG YOU"RE A GOOD PERSON cheoljin probably is like...well he's right, I'm a bad person

- cheoljin seems to say something important to minwoo when he holds his hand but minwoo is too distracted by the handholding to hear?? lol (I think this is a common dynamic for them where minwoo is so enamored with cheoljin that he misses certain things about him) I feel like we'll find out later on?

- but anyways it's clear young minwoo put cheoljin on a pedestal...present minwoo assumes only the worst of cheoljin...the key will be him being able to accept how complex cheoljin is as a WHOLE person imo. meanwhile cheoljin is going to have to learn how to be actually vulnerable with his feelings/wants/needs instead of manipulating people into doing things for him (vs just asking for help) + learning to let go of control and being honest? bc that's what it also means to treat ur partner with respect. long journey ahead...