Everrrly's Topics (28)

To be honest, I can see where you’re coming from and I know the whole situation left a bad taste in your mouth. I was the same, always only reading BL’s but looking at it from her perspective maybe it was uncomfortable for her? There was no reason she needed to crash out on you like that, but some people are uncomfortable with stuff like bl’s. I also believe it discredited her work in a way. Overly leaving comments to check the DM’s probably agitated her as well. Again, I don’t think you’re in the wrong and you have a reason to feel that way, but try to look at it from her perspective. Also, while an artist is their artwork, this is a really good novel in my opinion. I wouldn’t miss out on something because someone hurt my pride. I hope the same goes for you. :)

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply.

I forgot to mention that back then, there was a distinct separation for BG and BL. I think I saw some homophobic comments from an artist’s community, I can’t remember if it was from hers or someone else’s.

It’s like they’re shunned. I do realize that pinning homophobia on someone just because of this isn’t logical, which I won’t do but it’s an assumption that it may have played a factor in the way she responded so harshly.

I don’t feel as wronged as I did back then, but really, it leaves me a sour taste in my mouth.

Thank you once again, I will try to push aside my pride and read this (๑•ㅂ•)و✧

Honestly the author has the right to refuse if they did not want to do it. But if it was that harsh maybe they went little rogue and over did it but idk. I think that you should let go of the hurt so that u can move on from this dilemma. But idk so don't take what i say to heart dear.

Are you Chinese from mainland china or in another country?

Did you not know that the Chinese govt cracked down on censorship ESPECIALLY with BL artists and authors? Just look it up online and multiple sources talk about how these authors and artists were criminally charged (jailed and fined) This has been happening for a while too.

So it’s a possibility that the author you spoke about was unnerved that you made this request — especially if you publicly asked them to check their DMs as they could have just ignored your request. It’s also their choice to ignore your DM, as no one needs to respond to every request and comment. Even when you thought you were writing politely, It’s still an awkward request and demanding that they acknowledge you. If by supporting them, were you planning to commission them? Even that has a monetary consequence in China if they take up your project.

Here’s some links you can read:

https://www.independent.co.uk/asia/china/gay-erotica-china-danmei-writers-arrested-b2779488.html

https://www.reddit.com/r/boyslove/comments/1ldglua/a_guide_to_chinese_bl_censorship_as_it_currently/

Thank you, I appreciate the feedback ^^

Hello,

I’m from Mainland China but I wasn’t raised there. Strictly speaking, my ethnicity is Chinese but I was born in Europe. I’m aware of the recent situation regarding the Chinese government jailing and fining certain artists.

However, at the current time it wasn’t a thing yet—at least, it not reported in the news. I was aware that homosexual work was not widely accepted throughout the nation because of some beliefs and traditions, which was why I chose the discreet route to DM them.

I agree not everyone has to respond to me, accept my request or whatever. I only left comments because that was the only way I could attract the author’s attention, because I too, would like to move on. As I’ve stated, if they declined the request, I would move on—no complaint whatsoever. It is an awkward request, I understand—a difficult one too which was why I understand completely if they don’t want to do it—but if I don’t ask, nobody will. It’s better to do so than to be left with regrets because at least I can look back and say “I tried my best”.

By supporting, I meant that on whatever website they’ve chose to upload on—I would spend money purchasing official chapters from them. I’m most familiar with Kuaikan and coincidentally, both of this artist’s works are published from Kuaikan, there’s a feature that allows you to donate credits and a monthly ticket that shows your support for the author’s work. I was willing to do that.

Thank you for sending the links and informing me about the monetary restrictions. I really didn’t know there were punishments on that. If the artist didn’t feel like taking up any Danmei projects, I’m fine with it. I just wanted a word.

I need to reaffirm I’ve never messaged her once again after the last interaction I had with her.

Thank you for the reply.

i find this funny bc bl readers are always gloating about how b x g artwork is ugly compared to bl

anyways icl you sounded a lil entitled back then sure you may have worded it politely but dming an artist/author to ask them to write something that YOU like may come across as bold to some people especially if it's something that they haven't written or drawn before (which in this case is bl)

I can’t speak for everyone and every style/genre the other countries have but if you’ve read any of the popular B x G manhuas, Art is nearly/always immaculate in them. I’ve not seen anyone complain about straight manhua so much, especially to the point of bullying an artist into dropping the work together (Little Mushroom).

I agree with you on the fact that I may been , pushing boundaries now that I reflect back on the times. However, DMs are opened for a reason. Some people leave heartfelt messages, some hate and some just questions about future work.

However, I, do not agree with your usage of “entitlement” here. I do not expect special treatment or privileges, especially without having earned them which was why I was willing to support the artist in whatever way I can.

Even now, I don’t believe that asking or trying for something you want is entitlement, unless you disrespect and continue bothering the artist even after they said no.

I took the initiative to message them about a project because I wanted to fight for something I like instead of sitting around.

Now, I’m aware I don’t have any special rights. I’m not expecting the Artist to CATER to my preferences but it was a suggestion, just as how many others would say something like — “oh, she’s better in wavy hair” or “she suits the red dress better”.

I was too naive to think back then regarding the dismay often placed upon Danmei works, which I also would respect if the artist didn’t want to take up a project based on that.

Everything starts from a suggestion, if you want something—you suggest for it. Moreover, I respected every one of these artists—simply a no would sent me on my way, as countless artists others have said so before.

I don’t harbor any bad feelings towards them but this artist in particular was very harsh. Even now, I can still somehow very subtly feel the shock and despondent back then which has led me to create this post.

maybe its bc you're talking about manhua specifically but i and many others have seen bl fans brag about bl manga, manhua and manhwa being better drawn and better written in comment sections i think there are good and bad art in both genres

i agree that entitled was a bit harsh ig "pushy" is the right word? i personally wouldn't dm an artist to draw something that i like i would just find artists that already do so but again that's just me

for all we know the artist could have bad experiences with bl fans before and that's why the artist reacted like that you never know what the person behind the screen is going through

Thank you for informing me. Yes, I was leaning more towards the spectrum of Manhuas only.

I’m not very in the circles of any Mangas/Manhuas/Manhwas. I just like to read by myself. Occasionally though, I’d run across some comments—but that was years ago when I was on the rampage of trying to get replies.

I respect your decision to not push artists out of their boundaries and let them stick with their original genre. However, I believe that asking an artist to try something new isn’t irrational either.

I still haven’t fully grasped why I was so desperate back then for these specific artists. I think it was the sense of nostalgia that I found in the art in which I wished would be able to be portrayable in the BL world.

I suppose I hoped that because those specific artists/authors created such beautiful stories, I wanted it to be incorporated into BL too. I don’t understand why the genre is so frowned upon, there’s many good works too and I believed that in today’s times, we would’ve been more opened about LGBTQ+ but everyone to their own.

As you’ve said, you don’t know what experiences the artist had with BL fans before and you never know what goes on behind the screen. This, I 100% agree with—but it sounds like you’re saying it was okay for her to lash out at me, because I am a BL fan. I know you don’t mean it that way, but it makes me feel like I don’t have a right to feel hurt by her words because she went through a lot or had bad experiences.

Personally, if someone reached out to me for something I didn’t want to do—I wouldn’t take my emotions on them. I’d just decline and move on without scolding them.

Lastly, I just want to circle back to the BL fans being toxic. I’m not going to justify them or side with anyone. I’m impartial on this BUT I have also seen B x G circles discussing the art styles being bad in BLs too. Let’s just say, a never ending war, unfortunately. There will always be people who find faults in what someone does.

So let's clarify one thing right away. You are allowed to feel whatever you want on any interaction with anyone, be it your family, friends, strangers, or in this case, an author you were reaching out to. You are well within your rights to feel a certain way about literally anything - it's not like every single interaction with your parents is a happy one, yes? You get into arguments and make up. What's important is what you do with those emotions and move forward.
So to make sure I'm understanding, was it the author of this story that you had the bad interaction with? I wasn't quite sure because you said it was unrelated to the manhua, but you also say "this author" so I wanted to be clear on that. I'm going to assume yes, since I think you meant you weren't talking about the story itself.

I have a lot of points to make in your story, so this might turn out to be an essay lol. You also seem like you're on the younger side, so I apologize in advance if I sound overly harsh, I try to make sure I don't, but I can come across as being a bit blunt.

So I think it's been mentioned, but there are a couple of mistakes in your interactions. None of this is rude, but I would be slightly irritated if I knew your background along with your request.
The first being the posts. Like someone said earlier, going to the author's posts saying something along the lines of "check your DM's" is very spammy and reads as a bot account. Not a new thing, this is still applicable 3-4 years ago. It doesn't encourage additional interactions on the post the author is making, which is their intent. Had I been the author, I would've ignored you, thinking you're a bot. I literally get check your DM's on my instagram every now and then and while my account is public, it's very much a personal account with no intentions of being an influencer. A little wild you were commenting and expecting a response from someone who probably gets a load of DM's a day and are already really busy writing/drawing their work and maintaining their social media presence.
The second being, you weren't really a fan of the author since you didn't read their stories. Like you said, you were only reading BL, so you weren't reading the author's BG stories. Yes, art is super important to a manhua, but there's a lot of effort into writing/adjusting a story to fit into a manhua. While some author's have artists for their stories, the authors who are the artist for their manhua are putting in even more work and time into this story. No idea what the situation is for this specific story, but it's a lot of work all around. Coming in and asking them to write/draw a BL story, even if there's no intended pressure for them to do it, when you haven't even read their work, can feel invalidating. Imagine this, you paint your mom a beautiful family portrait as a gift. It's on canvas, you put in a lot of money, hours of time, and effort into creating this beautiful big painting for her, but when you give it to her, she says, without even really looking at it, "Thanks, but I actually prefer landscape paintings." It's not a perfect parallel, but can you imagine how you would feel hearing that? All that effort and time you put in now feels a little worthless. Now, these authors have hundred's of people of love their work, so a random person coming in asking for something different isn't going to bother them all that much, but it can be slightly annoying. You might've just had bad luck and caught them at a bad point in their day/life, and they took that anger out on you. If you were a fan of the author and had supported them before this, this point would not hit the same, but it really just sounds like you found author's whose styles you liked and asked them to consider making a BL.
Another example to help you with this. Imagine you love heavy metal music, and that was the only thing you listened to, but you enjoy music video style of pop stars, even if you don't listen to that music. You then go to Taylor Swift's (or other pop stars) posts asking her to check her DM's, then say basically, that you would love for her to make a heavy metal album with music videos. But you don't listen to her stuff and just saw a couple of her music videos you liked. And you expect a response. This parallel is me being more blunt, but that's essentially what you were doing. It's not wrong to ask for things, but it's a matter of time, place, occasion, and how you ask as well that's important. The way you went about it wasn't the best, tbh.
The last thing isn't a mistake, more just a general point. If you don't have the transcript of the original interaction with you, you probably aren't able to analyze the exact convo again with the benefit of time and maturing a bit. You said you asked another author online, and they say you weren't rude, which probably means you were fine, but would you trust that author? This is just a stranger on the internet. A popular author with social media presence, but still a stranger! You don't have any sort of relationship with them, so how could you even trust they are going to give proper advice? It's way better to have asked a trusted friend or at least go on a forum or something for BL fans to get proper constructive criticism at that time. If you are going to ask for advice on the internet, forums or discussions like this one are better since many people can chime in, not just one person. If this really truly still bothers you, as difficult as it is, see if you can find that conversation again and look at it with new eyes, as someone who is 4 years older and has learned more since then. Nuance is so important, and you might've said something wrong, or the author might not have been as mean as you think she was. It could be the hurt of the message at the time might've just kept growing in your head to be something much worse than it actually was. It's a common thing that happens to people at any age, so that's not just a you problem. Not to say that's the case, just a possibility.

Anyways, none of this is to blame you. No matter what you said, if the author was going to be mean, they should've just ignored you. On the flip side, it's a little unhealthy to hold onto the resentment/hurt for this long. It's been 3-4 years, and it sounds more like she scolded you, not straight up cuss you out, right? I'm sure you've had worse arguments with family or friends since then and still made up with them. It's especially embarrassing and upsetting when someone outside of your inner circle is mean to you, and sad to say, some people are really just rude to anyone they think they can get away with being rude to. If you want to read the manhua, but are still unsure, try 10 chapters! If the author's interaction with you taints your enjoyment of the story, then give it up, but if not, enjoy the story! Chalk it up to them having a bad day or something. Either way, there are so so many authors out there who also have good stories and art styles that would love to have your attention and support. No need to give your energy or emotions, positive or negative, to someone who's probably long forgotten about you.

First and foremost,

Thank you for all the pointers, it’s really detailed and I liked the way you added examples. You’re not rude in any way, if anything, I appreciate your feedback.

I can see I have caused confusion. This artist’s first work is by themself, they drew and wrote the story, I believe. The second one, being this, is a novel by another author but she’s the artist. By using “author”, I was only referring to the artist as I’ve seen people calling the artists that. The translation is a bit different but I guess my brain didn’t comprehend that so apologies.


I was inconsiderate at the time, I was aware that the process of making a manhua is extremely taxing and lengthy, which was why I made sure to mention that I wouldn’t mind waiting for no matter how long. My intent wasn’t to discredit her work or strain her current project by asking her to take time out immediately.

I just wanted to plant a seed that I hope, could grow to become a part of a consideration for their future work probably.

I will admit, I never thought that me reaching out would make them feel invalidated as you said in regards to me not reading their works before. That was my mistake. At the time, I couldn’t really stomach BG manhuas but nonetheless, I still wanted to see this artist’s work. I was insensitive, which I now know.

As you’ve stated, it’s not wrong to ask for something but it’s the time, place and occasion. However, back then, I had really limited resources. I still do. I’m not in China, so there is very little and major limitations to what I can do to contact her—Weibo being the only way I know how. DMs were the only viable option back then.

To tie into this, I am aware that bots are a common occurrence and me leaving comments like “please check your DMs” can come across as spamming which was why I limited my comments. I don’t comment every single time or on every post she’s made. It’s the best I could have done.

Unfortunately, right after copying the message the artist left—I deleted the chat log on Weibo because I felt extremely humiliated and hurt. Perhaps that’s why it’s been lingering on the back of my mind.

The other artist I reached out to for an advice is a good person. She too, has been in the industry for a long time. Thank you for being concerned. Being wary Strangers is right, which was why I didn’t disclose anything personal. The advice I was looking for wasn’t anything LIFE-IMPACTING. I just wished to know if I was in the right to feel hurt or if I’ve done something wrong.

Your advice on this being unhealthy is appreciated. I realize that myself as well actually.

The good news is I’m not angered when I recall this memory, nor am I distressed. I just feel apprehensive about starting this artist’s work because the feeling of what I felt back then is still present, however subtle it may be—BUT— I hope you will be happy to hear that I’ve read until chapter 40 something today, I’m planning to continue later when I have free time and I’m actually enjoying the story so far.

I don’t feel resentment, just a bit wronged at being scolded. I rarely ask anything of strangers online, so reaching out was a big step for me. I guess I felt that my message that came from a place of desperate hope was trampled on carelessly.

Manhuas play a big part in my life, so it may come across as silly to be this hung over and I sound like I’m younger. I’m actually 21, haha. Crazy, right?This all happened when I was 18 or around there.

It’s insane, but I’m just a person that gets stuck in the past. I want to be a good person with accountability. That’s why I made this post, to see if I did anything wrong and to see if my feelings are right. I’ve been told I have a self-victimizing personality online by some stranger so that made me doubtful of my actions.


Thank you for the lessons and time. I wish you the best.

i'm not saying that the artist should have lashed out at you i'm trying to offer a new perspective it's easy to get caught up in the reaction but not the cause like you said if i was dm'd i would have politely declined and left it at that

i also want to note that just bc someone doesn't want to draw bl content doesn't necessarily mean they're close minded about gay people just like how reading bl doesn't make someone an ally

yes both sides have toxic attitudes and criticism towards the other

That's great to hear! Looks like you're just working through some unresolved feelings about it.
And oooh girl, 21 is very much still a baby, TRUST ME. I figured you were late teens early 20's haha. The feelings you were talking about really reminded me of me at that age so I could empathize (and why I responded haha), and the points I brought up are very much a product of me getting older and growing up a bit haha. You are going to grow so much and learn so much in the next ten years and then think about this event and be like, dang that happened, I barely remember that! Even then you'll still only be close to my age and I still consider myself a youngish adult LOL.
The one thing I will push back on is the idea that you had limited options. This is where the time aspect of TPO comes in. I remember the feeling of just NOT having the capability of waiting, and the discussion/idea is moments away from bursting out of you. I still have moments like that, and I sometimes have to physically force myself to reign it in. So if at that time, you managed to reign yourself in a bit and think about it, what really would've changed if you did those DM's 1 month from then? Or 6 months? Or even a year or two?Tbh, probably nothing right? How many of the authors that you DM'd at that point in time actually released a BL? There might've been a handful, but I don't think your percentage would be very high. Time isn't just about appropriateness, it's about timing so that your point comes across effectively too.
So, while you might not be into DM-ing authors anymore, if you ever did, a more timely and meaningful way would be to read one of their works and see if there's a possible BL pairing of side characters. It might not be common, but it's better to go to an author and say "I love your BG story and art and story etc... would you ever think about pairing 2nd ML X random side character for a story? I think they would be such a cute combo and xyz reasons....anyway I'm loving the story and I can't wait to see the end!" See how it shows that 1, you've read their work and think it's great, 2, brings up your desire to read BL with literally no pressure. Versus "I love your art style/storytelling, would you consider ever writing a BL? No pressure, but tell me yes or no so I can move on to other authors" has the intent of no pressure but for some authors can feel like you're putting pressure on them. Like you're withholding yourself from reading their work and supporting them unless they write BL, almost like a threat. Not your intention of course, but it's similar vibes to those Karen's who are like, "if you don't do x thing, then I'm going to take my business elsewhere!" as if it's a genuine threat and going to bankrupt a grocery store. Emphasizing, I know that's not your intent at all, but the author may have been super sensitive and seen it that way. Like many humans on social media, the authors want people to read and support their work, so your phrasing could have come across as unintentional pressure to write BL.
I will say, obvs I want you to be careful talking to strangers on the internet, but I was a bit more worried about the parasocial aspect of it with someone online, not you sharing your personal details. When emotions are heightened, it's possible at any age to get manipulated into crazy situations. Regardless of gender, one on one chats with someone you don't know well who has some type of power dynamic with you (in this case author and fan) can put you at risk, especially because at the time you were in an emotionally vulnerable state. That stuff should mainly be for your real life support system and occasionally using public internet forums if you really think you need to. A lot of internet people need to go touch grass so I highly recommend real life people. I wouldn't want you even DM-ing me! At most post a question and DM me to go answer it, I'm happy to answer it.
Dang, online I really am such a yapper, this was originally 2 short paragraphs ughhhh. To finish up, for emotions like this that don't really have a chance for closure, time is truly going to be the best cure, and not dwelling on it- your energy and emotions are valuable commodities, remember that!

Thank you so much, It didn’t occur to me the parasocial side of me reaching out. I’ll try my best to be more mindful now.


Again, thank you for taking the time to respond. Your advices which stemmed from your own personal experiences is very valuable to me.

PS.

Please don’t worry about being a yapper, I enjoyed every second of this conversation. Many thanks.

Honestly as an artist myself, it does get really annoying when people ask me to draw something that I haven’t drawn or don’t have any affinity to draw.

If you were sending them multiple messages to check dms, then it could definitely be seen as a form of harassment in a way.

The only thing I can say is to not take it to heart, us artists and writers are generally just burnt out because of what’s going on with the world right now, and the last thing we wanna hear is someone random wanting us to spend our time doing something that we prefer not to do.

This isn’t any hate or such towards you, but when it comes to creatives, it’s always best to be mindful that:

1) We have certain things we personally like to focus on when it comes to our works - being requested to do something else without any form of proper interactions or money tied to it can sometimes agitate or upset us, making us feel more like computers than people.

2) creative works take a lot of time to work on, sometimes we are too burnt out to work on anything but what we personally want to do - especially considering that things out of our comfort zone usually means we have to study how to draw/write it correctly, which takes out a larger chunk of time.

The only way I can personally describe how situations like this makes us artists feel is like coming home from a 48 hour shift after everyone shouted at you, only for someone to suddenly flick on the bedroom light just as you were about to fall asleep.

You definitely caught the artist on a bad day, or maybe your words were more blunt than you thought they were which caused a reaction.

Usually, it’s best to not request things specifically from creatives unless you’re willing to commission us for something instead.

Hello, thank you for replying. I appreciate you sharing your personal feelings on this topic with me.

As from my other replies, I know now that excessively asking them to check their DMs can be annoying. However, as I’ve said many times before, it was the only way I could contact them back then since the account used to contact them didn’t belong to me personally. My aunt gave it to me for fun—it requires a rather inconvenient login process if not accessed within a long time.

The phone number linked on that account doesn’t belong to me so I’ve no other way to login and ask them to check their DMs every few months or so as someone had suggested to me in the upper replies. This was the ONLY, ONLY way I could draw attention. The answer I was looking for didn’t need to be definitive, for however long—I didn’t mind waiting as long as they’re alright with perchance coming up with a project.


I was rather young and impatient because I knew my time was limited. However, even so, If they ever told me I was bothering them—I’d give up and disappear the second they wanted me to.

I’m nowhere near a professional artist but I do take pleasure in drawing too, especially for story panels similar to Manhuas. I’m aware it’s a very lengthy process, which was why I specifically added that I wouldn’t mind waiting for however long. It’s very rough translation but I assure you I was never striving for the artists to take time out immediately.

1.) I’ve great respect for any form of creators of illustrations. They help the readers understand and appreciate the story more. They quite literally—BRING the story to life. Even at my erratic age, I knew that asking favors for free is scummy. In my other replies on this post, I’ve said I was willing to support them on KuaiKan. That was the only platform I knew of then in which I could actually spend my currency—and the only platform they released both their works on. I am aware that every artist, including someone like me who draws for fun, have specific comfort zones. I’m not trying to force the artist to try new things, I was offering a suggestion that I knew would likely be rejected. It’s a step forward. A consideration, not absolutely confirmed—as I’ve said many times before—if I don’t ask, I would be left with regrets. In the end, I tried my best.

2.) Creative work does indeed take a lot of time. Coming up with ideas and studying especially so, but as an artist—a person, you learn everyday AND improve everyday. It’s vigorous and tiring, but rewarding too. As stated above, time was something I was willing to give—even if not definitive. Evidently by their second work, the artist is able to adapt novels. I wasn’t asking for an all in one. They don’t have to make the stories themselves.

Finally, I’d just like to reiterate that supporting them by purchasing their official work was something I was willingly to do and I definitely meant no ill-intention in diminishing their comfort or time/work.

This was all a suggestion.

Everyone has an unhealthy obsession at some point in their lives, unfortunately so, mine was Manhuas. I’m learning to balance my interests. It was something that kept me going in life.

I don’t want to turn this into a sob story or hate towards the artist/creator—so I’d like to drop this now.

This isn’t directed to you, or anyone else who has a different view on this to me but I would just like to say, this was something that hurt me for a long, long while. Even on my worst days, I would try my best not to lash out on others. No matter how burnt out i was and if I do, I try to minimize hurtful words and do my best to apologize.

CLARIFYING that I’m not seeking an apology of any sort. This post was made to take accountability, but I also want to give my reasonings into it to help anyone who was reading a better insight to what I felt back then.

There was a timeskip babes

Thanks.