The way most people were celebrating when the Incheol mf literally cheated on Hyori without even communicating with her about their unstable relationship and breaking up properly proves how deeply rooted misogyny is in most of y'alls mind... Just because she was trying to hold the relationship like a fucking normal woman, some braindead moron called her annoying like check your male centric brain first before calling someone annoying (If any of you think that way. When Bato was available, the comments were filled with bigots)
This. Everything about her character is valid. I never found her annoying or "in the way"
The Mc is an emotionally unavailable workaholic and she finds it upsetting RIGHTFULLY so.
The misogyny of these yaoi-obessed lunatics needs to be studied
Someone disliked this comment too
say it louder and honestly I side eye alot of manwha authors for creating a disposable girlfriend in yaoi manwha that invites a lot of misogyny in an already male-centered fanbase but that’s a topic for another day
I mean gf's character was more about the control incheols boss had on him instead of the yaoi part of the story
Fr. Yaoi fanbase is already hella male centric plus misogyny in the stories add extra fuel in them... Have you read payback? The story theme of payback was so good and educational but it heavily disappointed me how everytime a pretty female character appeared where payback rarely had any women but the author had to portray them as some dumb bitches while being a woman herself... Not to be surprised no one noticed that... I accepted it first time at the VIP room when that girl tried to pick up on them honestly a lot of women fo that, I minded it at first because she was the only female character appeared after the MC's mom's death. The second time the male characters started to yap about the rich girl about how much of a princess she is even before she appeared. What got me so mad that mf Jay was rude towards her and her manager for no reason at all- he didn't call the mc ignorant for the same reason he called out to the manager something like- "take the ignorant woman with you and get lost" Only I noticed that and I dropped it because it genuinely ragebaited me and I'm not male centric to ignore that
Honestly, did not make it through at least I think the first 10 to 15 chapters of payback I kind of dropped it just because I don’t know the vibe of the story started to throw me off but honestly I get you there’s so many mahwas I have dropped actively because of the fucking blatant misogyny centered around it and it’s already hard enough to get by through this fan base and many other others without the fucking misogyny or heterophobia literally blaring from multiple fucking people and it’s like Hey as authors, especially if you are a woman author writing a queer story whether it’s centered around two or more gay women/gay men, let’s try to take the misogyny or heterophobia out of it and not try to fucking encourage more of that because we already have enough of it as it is
I can't stand that shit either! Women are either portrayed as disposable sex objects or as "annoying nagging" girlfriends to justify cheating on them and rooting for the male couple. Like either make a good portrayal of female characters in yaoi or leave them out of it!!
You're valid for dropping that shit for this. The misogyny in yaoi is NOT talked about enough!
Thank you!! Finally someone said it!
Everyone wants to talk about the misogyny part but leave out the STRAIGHTPHOBIA part!
And don't get me started on this disgusting line that is always being used in yaoi works where the ML compliments the MC by telling him "your butthole is tighter/better than a pussy"
Like, excuse me!!? The blatant fucking misogyny!
Not to mention the straightphobia from the fans whenever there's a straight sex scene in yaoi! It reminded me of the straight train sex scene of "codename anastasia"
All the gay-obsessed thots lost their shit over it. Hating on the female character calling her a "whore" and some even saying that they were "traumatized" over a consensual sex just because it was straight..
If I acted upset about a lezbo scene being shoved down my throat in a straight smut for women, everyone would jump me in the comments calling me names and accusing me of "homophobia"
The hypocrisy of those bitches is through the roof!
I LOVE YOU!!! THE WAY INSECURE MORONS TREATED LOUISE AND THOSE WOMEN IN TRAIN IS UNFORGIVABLE!!! And if you know about passion, it rarely has any women in UNHDRO or whatever... I mean isnt it pretty stereotypical to make most of the members men? I think Rita is cool but aside from that why are all the characters so horrible in nature? It doesn't even feel like a bl atp it's just straight up fetish fantasy story on men. But atleast the author has some skills I respect her for that
I wouldnt even mind if a lesbian scene was there, I didnt even mind straight smut being part of bl story its simoly part of the plot. They're saying that how the train scenes got them traumatised but not the grape? Holy patriarchy
Honestly I think yuri fanbase is the only space where there are relatively less misogyny towards the female characters than other fandom. They got proper queer representation than most bls nowadays
Bruh those comments were horrendous!! The amount of anger & venom they held toward her character and for what!
Ngl, for me it was the total opposite.. I loved seeing a woman engaging with two handsome males, and being sandwiched by said handsome male characters! It was a treat for my eyes
Yeb, they were more disturbed by the straight smut than the brutal raping...
and the only time these yaoi-crazed weirdos would ever love a female character is if she were made into a fujoshi, so now she's relatable, she's not a threat, she's just there on the sideline cheering on for the main couple's relationship and to provide her emotional support, serving as a stepping stone to strengthen & further their love. And that's about the only time a female character would ever be likeable to these misogynstic fans
Yh I've dropped mangas for that bs of the ml saying your shit is just like a pussy or you're getting so wet like a girl etc, like uke is a man not a lady can we stop. I think this is what stops me from reading those mangas where ukes genitalia turns into a pussy. Nothing against intersex folk but it just seems to be a fetish and its disgusting
Some morons hate Olga too btw
Accidentally pressed thumbs down but yeah your so right on that part I feel like most of the people that hate her are just misogynistic to her and have no real reason why to hate her and can’t accept that incheol isn’t innocent and that he was wrong
I'm so glad that batoto is gone, the comments were filled with male centric bigots... It pmo so much
first don't use the word lezbo if you're not a lesbian two straighphobia doesn't exist and three using misogynistic language in your criticism of misogyny is certainly a choice.
"Straightphobia doesn't exist"
I knew a dumbass would jump in and say that shit, but I digress...
I'm using whatever the fuck I choose. And I was being nice btw, I could have used a worse term than "lezbo"
Also you didn't add anything meaningful to this conversation about MISOGYNY, you just came here leaving a useless butthurt comment to complain about some unrelated shit.
Either stay on topic or SYBAU.
ok I'll replay to myself since 4life wanted to be a loser. I'm a lesbian. I think I have every right to comment on someone claiming straightphobia exists (it doesn't) and using a lesbian slur. I did add something to the conversation. I said not to use a lesbian slur and made a comment on the misogynistic language while criticizing misogyny I saw . we can have an intelligent conversation without resulting to insulting me. I otherwise agreed with the discussion. I wished misogyny within bl fan spaces and within the bl itself was discussed more and not dismissed as being a hater or ruining the fun of fandom or something like that.
I genuinely can't believe somone who claims to care about misogyny would tell a lesbian to her face that they would use a WORSE word than lesbo. deeply odd behavior.
uhm... Wtf is going on? I thought the convo was about misogyny in yaoi Istg yuri is the only place where there is less misogyny in the story... Please do not diss lesbians y'all... And imo, majority of wlw stories are written by women to express queer love for women. Meanwhile most yaois are written by straight women for straight women. I don't really see queer representation in yaois these days except in some mangas. The term "straightphobia" exists because either some people are too dedicated to queer media who cannot watch straight romance with the same heart as queer stories (me cuz I never got the chemistry in straight romance except I love some straight ships) Second misogyny because people are too obsessed with men that they feel disgusted by women's bodies nowadays. I understand that you watch both straight and bl but the way you said "lezbo scene shoved down my throat in a straight smut for women" Was pretty rude ngl towards lesbians because most lesbian stories are made for women and no author would add a wlw scene in a straight story Idk what you were trying to mean by that statement but it was kind of rude
omg thank you for saying this. I agreed with the entire thread. I was merely put off as a lesbian by seeing a slur used in my community thrown into the conversation. I assume the other person is straight and I really hope they weren't being intentionality lesbophobic based on how they were talking about lesbians. I mentioned the straighphobia doesn't exists because I've genuinely seen straight people try to compare it to homophobia and claim to be oppressed by the queer community. I didn't like seeing it used to discuss misogyny which is a real issue vs something tame like not caring for straight characters or media. I thought it was better to stay on topic since the real problem was misogyny not straighphobia. like I kind of understand not wanting to see a straight sex scene in a yaoi or yuri (bl or gl) since I wouldn't care for it either if I came for the gay, but the way people talk about it is due to misogyny more than any real malice toward straight people if that makes sense. I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to start anything or cause any problems.
Literally wth is going on... I thought this convo was only about misogyny is yaoi... Why are y'all bragging lesbians into this? Please dont diss lesbians like that... Tbh... Yuri is the only space where is less misogyny compared to yaoi and straight... Majority of the gl stories are actually written by queer women and they target queer women too. Even some gay guys on reddit agreed that yuri felt more realistic to them than yaoi because most yaois are written by straight women and they pretty much target straight women too. Most yaoi these days lack the actual queer representation except some mangas and some selective manhwas. Straightphobia even exists in the first place because some people are very dedicated to queer media so they may not like the straight romance because it has been shoved down their throat since childhood despite being queer themselves, other people implying that "oh that is called love and you're gonna find your opposite sex interest one day" (Tbh I never enjoyed straight romance, I never got the chemistry same as bl and gl, I only like some specific straight ships)
And the second reason straightphobia even exists is misogyny becase some yaoi crazed lunatics are so obsessed with men that they feel disgusted by women's bodies (If a gay man feels uncomfortable, its acceptable but if a woman hates on female bodies that is unacceptable and even a trans man doesnt have the right to hate on female bodies just because they felt uncomfortable once)
And when you said that "If I acted upset about a "lezbo" scene shoved down my throat in a straight smut made for women" I mean no heterosexual romance media would add lesbian scenes unless if a side character is a lesbian or the side couple are lesbians. I mean there is no reason to be upset about it and as I remember that a lot of people acted terribly towards bridgerton season 5, it was truly heartbreaking. And I dont think wlw scenes target men unless the director is a man or p*rn platform which targets men. I think that part you said "lezbo scene" is already rude towards lesbians ngl. And what worse term you couldve possibly used? Bold to assume gl mostly target queer women and bridgerton was directed by women too. We also dont talk about enough how movies and serieses with lesbian represention gets debunked (Take she-ra) while shows like heated rivalry etc gets most of the hype. Lesbophobia comes from misogyny too and you can see how underrated gl is compared to bl and patriarchal mindset is also the reason of this contrary
I love yuri and I love lesbians, The only space where I can watch women peacefully without them being objectified.. Ultimate stories of feminism ngl
I thought my comments were being deleted lol. Honestly you're so right!!! The lesbophobia in straight women and gayphobiain straight men needs to be studied... I also added in my second reply how series with lesbian side couples get debunked by these types of excuse it's honestly so fraustrating...
Guys and girls please read this on webtoon because its also free there and its tge easieat way to support the author
Wtf is this fetish ahh shit
Did you not read the title or look at the cover?
It's pretty obvious what it is.
"lets click on a manwha cover with a man who has his tits and ass out and has tentacles surrounding him, this will be an intellectual manwha for sure!"
why are y'all defending ts
Dont get me wrong the plot is ass but you could smell the fetish shit from a mile away
there’s nothing to ‘defend’ slow ass its a fucking fetish manwha, a drawing
your username tells everything lol
If someone wants to write a shitty fetish story then they should be allowed to. If you dont like it, thats
fine. DONT READ IT. It could not have been more clear what the book is about. It's weird ass behavior to click on something that you know is porn, and then complain about it being porn.
so does yours lmfao
I didnt even read it bruh
I never forgave Zhenya, genuinely how do some of y'all fujoshis even forgive these bastards's heinous actions? No matter how well written they are, I would never defend them, honestly is how are y'all defending this types of characters, glorifying them, fantasizing about them but then hate on Jake from Shutline and call Yuri boring like??? Before y'all attack me, I only added this pic as m pro because I think it's cute, I think cna has great story theme but oh dear I dislike both of these men. Taekjoo is hot but he's still a man... At least they're both horrible and these two have great chemistry. I haven't read Passion, I will never read it because I hate politics and military, abuse in romantic relationships and this story kinda feels sexist to me. Oh dear I dislike the two Russians and 1 German trio so much... Taeui seems like a nice guy tho
Exactly omg
Love you for not being so blind I honestly love the fujoshis and fudanshis who do not just simp on characters and have moral sense
Taeui isn’t as innocent as he appears,it’s his choice to be with illay
He’s not some victim staying against his will,no one knows illay and his insanity more than tae but he decided he wants to stay with him despite that,he knows how much illay is obsessed with him but he doesn’t mind it
I don’t forgive Zhenya (nor illay)either but both Zhenya and tkj are horrible, tkj is a spy..he knows if he’s captured, torture is bound to happen regardless of what Typt of torture (sexual, physical,psychological) he himself 100% tortured a spy before ,that’s the setting of CNA story + in the novel he gets his revenge on Zhenya when he lost his memory
but again it’s also his choice to stay with Zhenya ,I don’t feel sorry for neither of them..it’s their job at the end of the day
Tkj is also said to be horrible to his ex gfs
I look at the rape in CNA from a different Lense, rape is used as a way to break someone’s "ego" to make them confess
if you read those scenes tkj wasn’t mad at the rape itself as much as he was mad at the fact Zhenya is humiliating him and breaking his "masculinity ""male ego" but if you’re captured by the enemy you’ll expect something like this (even irl) and it’s not that different from being tortured to death in my personal opinion, both are humiliating and painful but tkj preferred the latter again cuz of his ego as a man "how can I let another man fck me from behind, why am I enjoying being humiliated ,id rather get tortured to death" etc so
neither of these stories are your typical "romance"
They’re dark romance for a reason and there’s TWs but that doesn’t mean others can’t enjoy reading it -without excusing the bad actions ofc
I’m not excusing neither of these stories’ rape but I still think CNA is more "realistic "than passion in a way
I seriously wish i could take tay and taekjoo away from these ists.
Most of the ones who dont tend to be middle schoolers...I like to think adult bl fans dont fit into that category
I dropped codename Anastasia a long time ago...I dont know how ppl enjoy it
That's why it's well written but they're both horrbile people only looks are saving them It genuinely pains me how people hate on my man Jake just because he's "ugly" while he's actually realistic???
Bro grown ass women defend characters like Naoya and they dont even understand character depth, complexity while they're over 30... I've seen 19 year old girls understanding characters and analysing them like matured people...
Zhenya is worse than Ilay though. Despite his threats, Ilay never attempted to kill Taeui for real or left him to die. Zhenya's deception and overall role also make him a lot more villain-coded, though the story has several villains, allowing for the slow shift towards toxic-but-still ML. Caesar is somewhere in the middle between, but at least his childhood explains why he's so screwed up. But all three of them are definitely dangerous psychopaths that should only be "enjoyed" in fiction.
Any toxic yaoi recs with no grape?
Even in your death (peak)
Can't find it
The other name is Die in your arms
Die in your arms*
DIE IN MY ARMS** (my spelling is cooked)
Thank you!!! I love toxic yaoi cuz I hate men but whenever I read a toxic yaoi, there is always grape between the mc and ml.. when I say I love toxic yaoi I love yaois like Shutline!!!
This feels like Yuri the version of 19 days... Even the artstyle
It's chinese... Most of their webtoon artstyle are like this
Lolll the authors work for the same studio and are really good friends
Really? That's so cool
Yes i love this
Wait 2 ash accounts? My name also starts wuth ash lmfao so 3 ash
There’s a manhwa on here they work together on called Mosspacca advertising agency or something, if you’ve not read it, lots of it is good - it’s comic strips they did to advertise brands, and the two authors appear (as young men)
WHERE IS SEASON 1
Thank you yuri angel
This manhwa is so refreshing